This article is a bit of a change of pace from the kinds of things we talk about here, but I thought it was worthy of posting. It seems a little extreme, but with a good message. One of the things I get out of it is a sense of shame that in my mind I always throught of Punky as a little boy (I even dreamed of him having a child's voice) and not the proud, strong, adult male that we was.
http://www.angryvet.org/en/03_articles/Sla...uraffection.htm
Full Version: And Now For Something Completely Different...
Hi Punky's momma,
I read the article and I also emailed him. Please don't feel ashamed that you thought of Punky as a little boy. That article is one man's opinion, you know. I did not see where he came up with a constructive idea to work towards, and that is one thing I mentioned in my email to him. Punky, Hannah and all our other "animal companions" IN THIS WORLD AS IT IS TODAY ARE dependent on us, and they ARE like little children. Without us, the majority of them would die from the elements and from starvation -- and sadly, I guess the majority of them do because we are a throw-away society as a whole, but WE are not those people. We are compassionate people who have all done the very best we could do. To me, kindness and empathy for people and animals makes the world a better place. It's a tragedy that there are so many unkind humans in this world, but we here at LS and many, many others are trying to make the world a better place for animals and for humans the only way we know how -- with love, kindness and respect. I believe everyone of us has respect for God's creatures, and that's the other key ingredient, isn't it?
Love,
Marcia
I read the article and I also emailed him. Please don't feel ashamed that you thought of Punky as a little boy. That article is one man's opinion, you know. I did not see where he came up with a constructive idea to work towards, and that is one thing I mentioned in my email to him. Punky, Hannah and all our other "animal companions" IN THIS WORLD AS IT IS TODAY ARE dependent on us, and they ARE like little children. Without us, the majority of them would die from the elements and from starvation -- and sadly, I guess the majority of them do because we are a throw-away society as a whole, but WE are not those people. We are compassionate people who have all done the very best we could do. To me, kindness and empathy for people and animals makes the world a better place. It's a tragedy that there are so many unkind humans in this world, but we here at LS and many, many others are trying to make the world a better place for animals and for humans the only way we know how -- with love, kindness and respect. I believe everyone of us has respect for God's creatures, and that's the other key ingredient, isn't it?
Love,
Marcia
Thank you for posting an interesting article that is certain to generate conversation 
civil conversation, I hope
I note, however, that he mentions "most people" quite often. I would like to make a few statements, mostly in response to this.
1) My pet is not a slave. He is a member of my family. I treat him with dignity, I have noticed his getting older and have responded by changing the way I interact with him to accommodate this.
2) My pet is neutered because allowing unwanted kittens to be created is a despicable and horribly irresponsible thing.
3) My pet will not be put to sleep for anything that I myself would not be willing to be put to sleep for.
4) Do I have a pet for selfish reasons? Yes I do. So do most people who have children, but I don't see the author talking about that, so I won't go into it.
5) I think, perhaps, that this jaded and emotionally drained person needs to take another look at humanity. I suggest they become a vegan, live alone in the mountains with a compost heap and outhouse, and spend the rest of their days happily staring up at the trees looking for birds.
And in the meantime, THANK YOU to everyone who has taken in a pet from a shelter or the SPCA - you HAVE given them something better. Your reasons may be selfish, but that doesn't negate the end.
civil conversation, I hope I note, however, that he mentions "most people" quite often. I would like to make a few statements, mostly in response to this.
1) My pet is not a slave. He is a member of my family. I treat him with dignity, I have noticed his getting older and have responded by changing the way I interact with him to accommodate this.
2) My pet is neutered because allowing unwanted kittens to be created is a despicable and horribly irresponsible thing.
3) My pet will not be put to sleep for anything that I myself would not be willing to be put to sleep for.
4) Do I have a pet for selfish reasons? Yes I do. So do most people who have children, but I don't see the author talking about that, so I won't go into it.
5) I think, perhaps, that this jaded and emotionally drained person needs to take another look at humanity. I suggest they become a vegan, live alone in the mountains with a compost heap and outhouse, and spend the rest of their days happily staring up at the trees looking for birds.
And in the meantime, THANK YOU to everyone who has taken in a pet from a shelter or the SPCA - you HAVE given them something better. Your reasons may be selfish, but that doesn't negate the end.
Well said, DJ. I'll let you know if I get a response to my email to him.
I hope no one thinks I was implicating any of you or myself in posting this article. I just think its healthy to see other perspectives, and then to extract what you want from it.
Peace.
Peace.
Of course not -- not at all. It is "food for thought" for sure. Different perspectives are good, I think, because for one thing they help clarify our own perspectives or something like that and maybe give us ideas we haven't thought of before.
M
M
Im sorry but i agree with so much of what he has said.
I know that a well-known brand of dog food is actually TESTING on dogs but we don’t find out the facts before we buy.
I have actually written to companies that test on animals and they really think its ok because they believe it is for HUMANS better good, god forbid you should blind yourself using mascara.
I ask you would you buy the product if it actually displayed TESTED ON ANIMALS but because we don’t ask they don’t tell.----- ‘’’’’’’’’’’’sorry pet hate’’’’’’’’’’’’
i think he agreed that euthanasia for terminal ill and sick pets was ok but too many people have their pet put down just because they want to move or cant be bothered anymore or even a black cat would look better with the new décor.
I think that as a vet he has seen far more animal cruelty than his fair share and needed desperately to let off a lot of steam.
I think although he will not have another pet himself, his finger was pointing more at the pretty throw away people of the world, although I think we are just as guilty for burying our heads in the sand at things too.- me included..
Guess you all hate me now!!!!!!!
I know that a well-known brand of dog food is actually TESTING on dogs but we don’t find out the facts before we buy.
I have actually written to companies that test on animals and they really think its ok because they believe it is for HUMANS better good, god forbid you should blind yourself using mascara.
I ask you would you buy the product if it actually displayed TESTED ON ANIMALS but because we don’t ask they don’t tell.----- ‘’’’’’’’’’’’sorry pet hate’’’’’’’’’’’’
i think he agreed that euthanasia for terminal ill and sick pets was ok but too many people have their pet put down just because they want to move or cant be bothered anymore or even a black cat would look better with the new décor.
I think that as a vet he has seen far more animal cruelty than his fair share and needed desperately to let off a lot of steam.
I think although he will not have another pet himself, his finger was pointing more at the pretty throw away people of the world, although I think we are just as guilty for burying our heads in the sand at things too.- me included..
Guess you all hate me now!!!!!!!
Hah! LOL. It's interested and funny that we each focused on different aspects of the article, isn't it?
The things that stood out for me that I did not like were:
1. "We indulge ourselves in fantasies about the human-pet bond, confident that we've done our part to improve the fate of animals. We feel like a part of the solution.
But it's a con. Our society not only condones, but encourages our relationship with pets which is nothing but a subtle form of slavery. Shelters and humane organizations play a shamefully important role in this masquerade."
2. "Animals have innate characteristics that are not compatible with the lifestyle we impose on them for our own pleasure and comfort. For instance, dogs follow their instincts to fit into a certain position in a pack. Dominance comes naturally to some dogs, which is good in a dog pack, but usually undesirable in dog-human relationships. Most people have little understanding of the laws that govern dog behavior, and when conflicts arise, it is always the dog that loses in the end. This is but one example of the incompatibility of animals and people that causes life to be stressful for pets."
3. "The claim that animal longevity keeps on improving is totally bogus, a well-planned marketing scheme from a very ruthless industry." Which industry? Veterinarians?
4." We use high sounding words like compassion, humanism, altruism, activism, care, love, they just serve as a verbal smokescreen that hides our tendency to treat not just animals, but other people and nature itself as mere merchandise, as objects of pleasure, comfort and satisfaction."
5. "Animals honour us only when they are truly free."
6. "We indulge ourselves in fantasies about the human-pet bond, confident that we've done our part to improve the fate of animals. We feel like a part of the solution. But it's a con. Our society not only condones, but encourages our relationship with pets which is nothing but a subtle form of slavery. Shelters and humane organizations play a shamefully important role in this masquerade.
And so on . . . I have gotten aggravated and frustrated trying to go back and re-read the article. I will just stop here. I don't see that he suggests any solutions to anything. Just forget about them and let them loose to run wild? Will that make them "truly free?"
I agree that some people do treat everything as a commodity or whatever, but not all people do. I agree about the pet food, the vaccinations, using animals for testing, inhumane euthanasia, etc. And I checked out those things he said about that. Most of those practices have now been abolished because of individuals who do care about animals, altho I'm sure there are still instances where they still occur and when you have ignorant sadistic people these will occur in spite of laws or whatever.
I hope that he is concentrating on those things that he can possibly change -- the food, the vaccinations, etc. I suppose my main point is it just seems that he includes everyone in his article and does not acknowledge that there are a lot of people in the world who really do care and really are trying to help. They are not our slaves.
I may be wrong, but I have the sense that he is referring to people like us who love their animals so much, and yeah, I resent his implications. To say that we are being selfish when we adopt from a shelter, feed homeless animals, etc., I just disagree for the most part.
We are all adults and I sure hope no one gets upset or mad when someone expresses their opinion. That would be too sad. I'd like to think we can say what we feel here, as long as we have respect for each other's feelings and differing opinions. We are all good well-intentioned people here, and I believe we can maintain and have an honest, thought-provoking discussion without anyone getting angry or getting their feelings hurt. AND, most of us are really close. We have shared our inner-most feelings and thoughts, and we are friends and we know all too well the need to share things that matter to us.
Ms. Loud Mouth (AGAIN),
Marcia
The things that stood out for me that I did not like were:
1. "We indulge ourselves in fantasies about the human-pet bond, confident that we've done our part to improve the fate of animals. We feel like a part of the solution.
But it's a con. Our society not only condones, but encourages our relationship with pets which is nothing but a subtle form of slavery. Shelters and humane organizations play a shamefully important role in this masquerade."
2. "Animals have innate characteristics that are not compatible with the lifestyle we impose on them for our own pleasure and comfort. For instance, dogs follow their instincts to fit into a certain position in a pack. Dominance comes naturally to some dogs, which is good in a dog pack, but usually undesirable in dog-human relationships. Most people have little understanding of the laws that govern dog behavior, and when conflicts arise, it is always the dog that loses in the end. This is but one example of the incompatibility of animals and people that causes life to be stressful for pets."
3. "The claim that animal longevity keeps on improving is totally bogus, a well-planned marketing scheme from a very ruthless industry." Which industry? Veterinarians?
4." We use high sounding words like compassion, humanism, altruism, activism, care, love, they just serve as a verbal smokescreen that hides our tendency to treat not just animals, but other people and nature itself as mere merchandise, as objects of pleasure, comfort and satisfaction."
5. "Animals honour us only when they are truly free."
6. "We indulge ourselves in fantasies about the human-pet bond, confident that we've done our part to improve the fate of animals. We feel like a part of the solution. But it's a con. Our society not only condones, but encourages our relationship with pets which is nothing but a subtle form of slavery. Shelters and humane organizations play a shamefully important role in this masquerade.
And so on . . . I have gotten aggravated and frustrated trying to go back and re-read the article. I will just stop here. I don't see that he suggests any solutions to anything. Just forget about them and let them loose to run wild? Will that make them "truly free?"
I agree that some people do treat everything as a commodity or whatever, but not all people do. I agree about the pet food, the vaccinations, using animals for testing, inhumane euthanasia, etc. And I checked out those things he said about that. Most of those practices have now been abolished because of individuals who do care about animals, altho I'm sure there are still instances where they still occur and when you have ignorant sadistic people these will occur in spite of laws or whatever.
I hope that he is concentrating on those things that he can possibly change -- the food, the vaccinations, etc. I suppose my main point is it just seems that he includes everyone in his article and does not acknowledge that there are a lot of people in the world who really do care and really are trying to help. They are not our slaves.
I may be wrong, but I have the sense that he is referring to people like us who love their animals so much, and yeah, I resent his implications. To say that we are being selfish when we adopt from a shelter, feed homeless animals, etc., I just disagree for the most part.
We are all adults and I sure hope no one gets upset or mad when someone expresses their opinion. That would be too sad. I'd like to think we can say what we feel here, as long as we have respect for each other's feelings and differing opinions. We are all good well-intentioned people here, and I believe we can maintain and have an honest, thought-provoking discussion without anyone getting angry or getting their feelings hurt. AND, most of us are really close. We have shared our inner-most feelings and thoughts, and we are friends and we know all too well the need to share things that matter to us.
Ms. Loud Mouth (AGAIN),
Marcia
I not only read his article, but I sent it to my husband. It will be interesting to see his reaction because his perspective on pets is different than mine. I've noticed that since Sonnie's death he's leaning closer to my side of the fence when it comes to pets. I don't really consider them to be pets - they're part of the family. In our instance, they are our family. We have no children, both of Rob's parents are deceased, my father is gone, my mother has disowned me more times than I can remember, and the only person in my family that loves me unconditionally is my brother. He's in a group home for developmentally disabled individuals and has been for most of his life. He doesn't understand what the rest of the world is like, and I envy that.
I also noticed that the author doesn't recommend any suggestions for changing the world. I personally think you shouldn't complain about something without trying to offer suggestions to make it better. There are a lot of social problems in this world that affect everything else in one way or another. (I'm majoring in sociology in college - this is so weird.) Our professor assigned us each a social problem for our term paper. We had to tell what the problem was, how the three sociological theories look at it, what causes the problem, interview three people about the problem, and suggest ways to correct it. We looked at each social problem individually in our reading assignments, and not once did we not look at the ways these problems interact and possible solutions. I'm not saying they were feasible without a lot of grassroot effort and help from politicians, but we have to try.
I personally will continue to make an animal's life better by adopting one. Sonnie was a no-kill shelter dog, and our Manx Myles came from the same shelter. The only animal in our home that isn't from a home where it would have died might be Bear. Did we pay for him? Yes. Is he a purebred? Yes. Is he registered? Yes. Did we originally get him because we wanted an akita? Yes and no. My husband is &%^ about doing research on a subject before venturing in to it. He thought they were magnificent creatures with personality. We studied about their good points and bad points, not to mention the health risks associated with a large breed dog. Bear's had intestinal diseases and both retinas detached before reattaching by themselves. Our vet did everything he could to help him through each illness, and then suggested other places for us to take him. Doc did the same with Sonnie. I think we are caring people with lots of love to give.
I know of oneother couple in my neighborhood who have had to put a beloved old dog to sleep because of illness. There's another couple across the street who are grappling with that decision right now. We are all loving and caring people who do everything possible to make our pets' lives with us as comfortable as possible. Everyone on this website is too. He's entitled to his opinion, I just think he's wrong.
If nothing else, this article has helped us to forget (for a little while) our sorrow and pain. I'll thank him for that. Besides, a good healthy discussion is good for the soul. Thank you for the link, Punky's mom.
I also noticed that the author doesn't recommend any suggestions for changing the world. I personally think you shouldn't complain about something without trying to offer suggestions to make it better. There are a lot of social problems in this world that affect everything else in one way or another. (I'm majoring in sociology in college - this is so weird.) Our professor assigned us each a social problem for our term paper. We had to tell what the problem was, how the three sociological theories look at it, what causes the problem, interview three people about the problem, and suggest ways to correct it. We looked at each social problem individually in our reading assignments, and not once did we not look at the ways these problems interact and possible solutions. I'm not saying they were feasible without a lot of grassroot effort and help from politicians, but we have to try.
I personally will continue to make an animal's life better by adopting one. Sonnie was a no-kill shelter dog, and our Manx Myles came from the same shelter. The only animal in our home that isn't from a home where it would have died might be Bear. Did we pay for him? Yes. Is he a purebred? Yes. Is he registered? Yes. Did we originally get him because we wanted an akita? Yes and no. My husband is &%^ about doing research on a subject before venturing in to it. He thought they were magnificent creatures with personality. We studied about their good points and bad points, not to mention the health risks associated with a large breed dog. Bear's had intestinal diseases and both retinas detached before reattaching by themselves. Our vet did everything he could to help him through each illness, and then suggested other places for us to take him. Doc did the same with Sonnie. I think we are caring people with lots of love to give.
I know of oneother couple in my neighborhood who have had to put a beloved old dog to sleep because of illness. There's another couple across the street who are grappling with that decision right now. We are all loving and caring people who do everything possible to make our pets' lives with us as comfortable as possible. Everyone on this website is too. He's entitled to his opinion, I just think he's wrong.
If nothing else, this article has helped us to forget (for a little while) our sorrow and pain. I'll thank him for that. Besides, a good healthy discussion is good for the soul. Thank you for the link, Punky's mom.
When walking Jude and Sadie one day i saw a dog attack a bird and the owner called the dog off, walked away and just left the bird to suffer.
I picked the bird up and took it to the local animal rescue, on my way i passed a school thousands of children being let out and met by parents.
I was furious and my thoughts were 'look at them like a load of locusts’.
i did not distinguish from the good and the bad they were all bad as far as i was concerned i was just so angry.
I can imagine how after years of studying this mans ideals were not met by sick animals but selfish owners wanting a showpiece of something done about the nuisance side of the pet.
I would even agree that my Jude was kept a prisoner, she tried all her life to be free jumping 6 foot fences at every opportunity to wander the streets alone, that’s why now as much as I miss them I like to think of them being free at last.
I picked the bird up and took it to the local animal rescue, on my way i passed a school thousands of children being let out and met by parents.
I was furious and my thoughts were 'look at them like a load of locusts’.
i did not distinguish from the good and the bad they were all bad as far as i was concerned i was just so angry.
I can imagine how after years of studying this mans ideals were not met by sick animals but selfish owners wanting a showpiece of something done about the nuisance side of the pet.
I would even agree that my Jude was kept a prisoner, she tried all her life to be free jumping 6 foot fences at every opportunity to wander the streets alone, that’s why now as much as I miss them I like to think of them being free at last.
This guys sounds extremely bitter, I'm glad he's not a practicing vet anymore.
I agree, he offers no real solution to his vaguely stated problems. I thought his whole rant was too vague, I'll have to reread it but it was one cliched statement after another... what is he trying to say, really? That he's burnt out? That people shouldn't have pets? We should just let them all out free, to do what???? spaying is bad?? geez. He's having a laugh on us all, isn't he?!
I've just recently read about how they make dog food, it is SICKENING. Alot of people go the route of cooking their dogs meat and vegetables. Not my fault tho, I sure wouldn't choose to make dog food that way. And I have NEVER known anyone who had a pet and took it to be euthanized for trivial reasons; granted, it must happen I guess, I'm just saying I've never ever seen it. Most people I know love their animals like we all do here.
Also, what about all the known medical benefits of owning a pet? They lower blood pressure, get you out for activity more often, they're great comfort when they visit seniors in nursing homes....
I dunno, the guy threw out alot of buzz phrases but didn't offer any kind of constructive action to be taken...
I think he's just bitter.
Maybe he wasn't making enough money. <_<
I agree, he offers no real solution to his vaguely stated problems. I thought his whole rant was too vague, I'll have to reread it but it was one cliched statement after another... what is he trying to say, really? That he's burnt out? That people shouldn't have pets? We should just let them all out free, to do what???? spaying is bad?? geez. He's having a laugh on us all, isn't he?!
I've just recently read about how they make dog food, it is SICKENING. Alot of people go the route of cooking their dogs meat and vegetables. Not my fault tho, I sure wouldn't choose to make dog food that way. And I have NEVER known anyone who had a pet and took it to be euthanized for trivial reasons; granted, it must happen I guess, I'm just saying I've never ever seen it. Most people I know love their animals like we all do here.
Also, what about all the known medical benefits of owning a pet? They lower blood pressure, get you out for activity more often, they're great comfort when they visit seniors in nursing homes....
I dunno, the guy threw out alot of buzz phrases but didn't offer any kind of constructive action to be taken...
I think he's just bitter.
Maybe he wasn't making enough money. <_<
I am glad we all agree on ONE thing - discussing this type of topic, and sharing our various agreements and disagreements - is a healthy and intelligent way to learn. I love these types of discussions.
SJ - I don't hate you (I want to squirt you with a squirt gun - but I don't hate you) Discussions like these ones are one of the reasons I occasionally thank the heavens that I was born in a country and time period that encourages such discourse.
P.S. - I also have a saying "People are entitled to believe anything they choose. I fully support their right to have ANY opinion on ANY topic and will fight for their right to express that opinion in a respectful and intelligent manner.... No matter how misguided their opinion may be... GRIN)
Call me MISTER Loud Mouth
SJ - I don't hate you (I want to squirt you with a squirt gun - but I don't hate you
) Discussions like these ones are one of the reasons I occasionally thank the heavens that I was born in a country and time period that encourages such discourse.P.S. - I also have a saying "People are entitled to believe anything they choose. I fully support their right to have ANY opinion on ANY topic and will fight for their right to express that opinion in a respectful and intelligent manner.... No matter how misguided their opinion may be... GRIN)
Call me MISTER Loud Mouth
I also wanted to ask you all a question... How do you picture the pets that you have lost? For example - I picture Edgar as a little boy with dark black hair, a white lock of it hanging down onto his forehead and bright green eyes. I can even hear his voice. I picture Jesse as a slightly chubby, freckled redhead - with a beautiful smile and a habit of hugging everyone in sight.
I picture Tom - the stray I never really got to know - as a teenager, with dark hair, a brooding look to him, and a sensitive soul - the kind of being who would stop everything to help someone.
I imagine them meeting me at the Rainbow Bridge in whatever form they choose to meet me in - cat or human... That is me "projecting" onto their memory, I know - but it is comforting nonetheless.
How do the rest of you picture your pets? Can you imagine their voices? See them as people as well as in the forms they wore in life?
I picture Tom - the stray I never really got to know - as a teenager, with dark hair, a brooding look to him, and a sensitive soul - the kind of being who would stop everything to help someone.
I imagine them meeting me at the Rainbow Bridge in whatever form they choose to meet me in - cat or human... That is me "projecting" onto their memory, I know - but it is comforting nonetheless.
How do the rest of you picture your pets? Can you imagine their voices? See them as people as well as in the forms they wore in life?
I used to wonder if animals were angels in disguise. How we treated our animals was the true measure of our goodness as a person. In heaven you meet the animal in his true angel form, and he or she can tell you "Well done"
I don't believe that anymore, but its a nice thought
I don't believe that anymore, but its a nice thought
I beleive it, I think they are pre destioned to be ours, to fill a void, to help us to learn about uncondionial love and life and we will see them again, maybe as thier totems. Pamela
I agree with Pamela. I think they're angels sent here by God to help us in whatever manner we need it. I've always felt that I could talk to my dogs and work things out just by them listening. Even if I couldn't figure out the solution the first time I talked with them, I'd eventually get the answer and I'd always feel better. I've been talking to animals my entire life, even the ones I see in the wild. I've had people say I'm crazy, but it seems to make perfect sense to me.
DJ, I've never thought about how my furbabies would look as humans, probably because I love the way they look now. I don't have what is considered normal-looking kids. Bear's way bigger than he's suppose to be (28+" at the shoulder and 140 lbs.), so he'd probably look like Cactus Jack (a wrestler). He's got a gentle heart and wonderful disposition, but don't tick him off or try to hurt his little buddies. He jerked Rob's arm so hard one night a couple of years ago during a walk that we thought we'd have to take Rob to the ER. The neighborhood bully dog down the street was lying in wait for us in his yard and must not have seen Rob and Bear with Sonnie and I. He took off after Sonnie, and I was prepared to take him out when I heard Rob yell in pain and saw a flash of fur rush by me. Bear never gave any warning, he just went. Thank goodness he paid attention when I yelled his name or the other dog probably would have died. Bear stopped without touching him. That's when we really knew that Bear and Sonnie were best buds. Sorry about the rambling - I just remembered that.
I always thought of Sonnie as a small child who needed reassurance that everything was going to be ok. He had a strong voice for such a small dog, but I think it covered his insecurities. He never seemed to forget about the first year or so of his life, before he was given to the shelter we adopted him from. He would be pale with dark brown hair and big brown eyes that always seem to be searching in your soul for something only he knew what. At the same time, he would have made a wonderful clown for Ringling Brothers! He lived to make us smile and laugh. His whole body would wiggle, starting with his stump of a tail. That's what we miss most of all - his personality.
Myles is our teenager - kinda aloof but still wanting to be part of the family. He's all leg and power. Peaches is a teenage girl just coming in to her own, trying to get attention but not wanting it at the same time. She's all girl and very flirty. Mitzi's the youngest and full of vim and vigor. She'd be our 8-10 year old. She's either running/playing at full force or passed out asleep somewhere.
DJ, I've never thought about how my furbabies would look as humans, probably because I love the way they look now. I don't have what is considered normal-looking kids. Bear's way bigger than he's suppose to be (28+" at the shoulder and 140 lbs.), so he'd probably look like Cactus Jack (a wrestler). He's got a gentle heart and wonderful disposition, but don't tick him off or try to hurt his little buddies. He jerked Rob's arm so hard one night a couple of years ago during a walk that we thought we'd have to take Rob to the ER. The neighborhood bully dog down the street was lying in wait for us in his yard and must not have seen Rob and Bear with Sonnie and I. He took off after Sonnie, and I was prepared to take him out when I heard Rob yell in pain and saw a flash of fur rush by me. Bear never gave any warning, he just went. Thank goodness he paid attention when I yelled his name or the other dog probably would have died. Bear stopped without touching him. That's when we really knew that Bear and Sonnie were best buds. Sorry about the rambling - I just remembered that.
I always thought of Sonnie as a small child who needed reassurance that everything was going to be ok. He had a strong voice for such a small dog, but I think it covered his insecurities. He never seemed to forget about the first year or so of his life, before he was given to the shelter we adopted him from. He would be pale with dark brown hair and big brown eyes that always seem to be searching in your soul for something only he knew what. At the same time, he would have made a wonderful clown for Ringling Brothers! He lived to make us smile and laugh. His whole body would wiggle, starting with his stump of a tail. That's what we miss most of all - his personality.
Myles is our teenager - kinda aloof but still wanting to be part of the family. He's all leg and power. Peaches is a teenage girl just coming in to her own, trying to get attention but not wanting it at the same time. She's all girl and very flirty. Mitzi's the youngest and full of vim and vigor. She'd be our 8-10 year old. She's either running/playing at full force or passed out asleep somewhere.
I sent an email (very respectfully written) to this angryvet and we had a discussion for a day or two. It comes down to one very important thing.
He truly believes that there is an awful circle of abuse and manipulation in the pet breeding and raising world. And he's right. However, his solution of "just not being part of it" doesn't, to me, seem to be sufficient.
I also don't see why having a pet for my own selfish reasons is ANY different from why most people have children. To make me feel good, complete and to give something of myself to another being... If that's wrong, then I guess I'll live with it.
Thank you for opening up this topic so that we could discuss it. The vet has given me a new impetus. I have volunteered at a local no-kill shelter here in montreal, made a donation to them for a particular abandoned cat who needs major dental work, and I intend to be much more vocal about protecting our pets and animals from abuse.
But I still disagree with the angryvet on one point. He doesn't believe in our killing all pets, but he DOES believe in not furthering a cycle of ownership/subservience. I submit, again, that since WE are the ones that created pet breeds, then we should DEAL with it justly. Letting those breeds die out of neglect or turning them out into the wild would be so cruel as to diminish the very spirit of the humans doing so. It would be cheap and cowardly - and until people like him come up with humane and intelligent solutions, then they are just as much a part of the "problem" as anyone else.
He truly believes that there is an awful circle of abuse and manipulation in the pet breeding and raising world. And he's right. However, his solution of "just not being part of it" doesn't, to me, seem to be sufficient.
I also don't see why having a pet for my own selfish reasons is ANY different from why most people have children. To make me feel good, complete and to give something of myself to another being... If that's wrong, then I guess I'll live with it.
Thank you for opening up this topic so that we could discuss it. The vet has given me a new impetus. I have volunteered at a local no-kill shelter here in montreal, made a donation to them for a particular abandoned cat who needs major dental work, and I intend to be much more vocal about protecting our pets and animals from abuse.
But I still disagree with the angryvet on one point. He doesn't believe in our killing all pets, but he DOES believe in not furthering a cycle of ownership/subservience. I submit, again, that since WE are the ones that created pet breeds, then we should DEAL with it justly. Letting those breeds die out of neglect or turning them out into the wild would be so cruel as to diminish the very spirit of the humans doing so. It would be cheap and cowardly - and until people like him come up with humane and intelligent solutions, then they are just as much a part of the "problem" as anyone else.
DJ
I LOVE YOU
I LOVE YOU
I was intrigued by this article and read it a couple of times. Parts of it seemed very sane and rational however there was something a little "off " in respect to other aspects. I then noticed that the essay was taken from a book entitled " UN VETERINAIRE EN COLERE" and because I am French Canadian I visited the site "en francais". For any of you who understand French, you may wish to do the same. Dr. Danten does not come off sounding like so much of a wing-nut in French.
I am not necessarily defending what he has written, but it is true, some things get lost in translation.
If you will permit me, I will tranlate as best I can from the introdustion-
" The first readers of this essay were veterinarians and pet owners. All told me that they now viewed their pets differently, their relationship with their pet was transformed, and from now on they would love their pets better. This is important for me, because this book is dedicated primarily to those who love animals. Nobody has to feel guilty because no individual is responsible for the situation that I denounce. It is more a matter of social choices, made in good faith, with the best of intentions. Only an awareness of this situation can lead to a true change"
There is also an excerpt about a beagle "LUCKY THE UNFORTUNATE" that goes a long way in explaining Dr. Danten's position.
In support of some of his opinions, if I was a vet, I would refuse to perform the following procedures: declawing, debarking, tail and ear docking.
Nicole
I am not necessarily defending what he has written, but it is true, some things get lost in translation.
If you will permit me, I will tranlate as best I can from the introdustion-
" The first readers of this essay were veterinarians and pet owners. All told me that they now viewed their pets differently, their relationship with their pet was transformed, and from now on they would love their pets better. This is important for me, because this book is dedicated primarily to those who love animals. Nobody has to feel guilty because no individual is responsible for the situation that I denounce. It is more a matter of social choices, made in good faith, with the best of intentions. Only an awareness of this situation can lead to a true change"
There is also an excerpt about a beagle "LUCKY THE UNFORTUNATE" that goes a long way in explaining Dr. Danten's position.
In support of some of his opinions, if I was a vet, I would refuse to perform the following procedures: declawing, debarking, tail and ear docking.
Nicole
That's interesting, Nicole. Thanks for sharing that. Maybe if you get time you could elaborate a little bit more. Oh, I definitely agree -- no "cosmetic" procedures, for sure.
Marcia
Marcia
Definately an interesting article... At first I found it depressing but after giving it more thought... if he didn't take such a strong stand it wouldn't provoke people to so much thought which is important.
Who is who's slave? lol... those of us who truley love our animals are willing to be their slaves!!! I've got my alarm set to make sure that I get my dog her insulin on time... have spent my weeks vacation barely leaving the house to tend to her needs... I'm sleeping downstairs because she can't do stairs... Why am I doing this? Because I love her... we own each other!! She depends on me for food and to get her medical care but she gives as much as she recieves. And someone on this site said they would mortgage their house to have more time with their pet.
Sadly we are in the minority though... I did get some insight from thinking about euthanasia.... Dutchess had cancer surgery for a surface lump(margins clear)... a couple weeks later was very sick and found to be in a dangerous diabetic state... 3 days hospitalization and stabilized from that ... and then on Friday she had an ultrasound that showed tummy cancer and unhealthy liver. She seems to be relatively comfortable right now. BUT... when I heard the news about the latest test results my first thought (honestly) was to put her to sleep and end this awfulness right now. Because I don't want her to suffer AND I don't want to suffer seeing her struggle. Her vet told me, "I think we can keep her comfortable for a couple months." I thought to myself, "at what cost..." (physically, emotionally, and yes probably financially) Because in a way I think spending 1000 for extreme measures when Dutchess doesn't understand.. well maybe that money could be better spent... a donation to my no kill shelter or "DAWG" the dedicated animal welfare group I belong to...
Since the diagnosis two days ago her anti nausea meds are working, she's gaining strength, walking better and we've had a couple of good days together. I realize things can change in a heartbeat...
My point is that even as an animal lover, volunteer, member of groups... I leaned toward putting her to sleep quicker than my vet did. The cynical part of me was thinking.."of course..this is where they make their money" but after reading this article I sympathize how it must be hard for vets not to get the opportunity to try and see dogs thru to the end. Thanks for listening and I'd love any input.
Who is who's slave? lol... those of us who truley love our animals are willing to be their slaves!!! I've got my alarm set to make sure that I get my dog her insulin on time... have spent my weeks vacation barely leaving the house to tend to her needs... I'm sleeping downstairs because she can't do stairs... Why am I doing this? Because I love her... we own each other!! She depends on me for food and to get her medical care but she gives as much as she recieves. And someone on this site said they would mortgage their house to have more time with their pet.
Sadly we are in the minority though... I did get some insight from thinking about euthanasia.... Dutchess had cancer surgery for a surface lump(margins clear)... a couple weeks later was very sick and found to be in a dangerous diabetic state... 3 days hospitalization and stabilized from that ... and then on Friday she had an ultrasound that showed tummy cancer and unhealthy liver. She seems to be relatively comfortable right now. BUT... when I heard the news about the latest test results my first thought (honestly) was to put her to sleep and end this awfulness right now. Because I don't want her to suffer AND I don't want to suffer seeing her struggle. Her vet told me, "I think we can keep her comfortable for a couple months." I thought to myself, "at what cost..." (physically, emotionally, and yes probably financially) Because in a way I think spending 1000 for extreme measures when Dutchess doesn't understand.. well maybe that money could be better spent... a donation to my no kill shelter or "DAWG" the dedicated animal welfare group I belong to...
Since the diagnosis two days ago her anti nausea meds are working, she's gaining strength, walking better and we've had a couple of good days together. I realize things can change in a heartbeat...
My point is that even as an animal lover, volunteer, member of groups... I leaned toward putting her to sleep quicker than my vet did. The cynical part of me was thinking.."of course..this is where they make their money" but after reading this article I sympathize how it must be hard for vets not to get the opportunity to try and see dogs thru to the end. Thanks for listening and I'd love any input.
QUOTE (terio @ Jan 2 2005, 11:26 AM)
I sympathize how it must be hard for vets not to get the opportunity to try and see dogs thru to the end. Thanks for listening and I'd love any input.
My vet, even one week before Punky died (though I didn't know we were so close at the time) was getting him on anti-carcinogenic homeopathy. I was glad that he took interest and didn't try to destroy my last shred of hope even through the odds were very much against us. Of course, Punky wasn't suffering yet at that time. I think he would have handed me a reality check had he seen Punky in his last few days if I was still trying to "save" him.
Hi Terio,
I think you have to go with your gut feeling as to whether this vet is for you, i tried to change to a homeopathic vet who unfortunately had left by next visit.
I was treated like dirt by one vet as far as he was concerned Jude should have been put down months prior yet he didnt look into those strong determined eyes with that alert knowing brain.
They are all as different as we all are from each other, some show compassion others impatient, unfortunately we are too vulnerable at the time to pull them up on the way they are treating us.
Personally if they are compassionate then they are ok if they show no feeling towards you or Dutchess then ask to see another vet or change surgeries.
To me if she is trying homeopathy then she’s ok.
Love Sue
I think you have to go with your gut feeling as to whether this vet is for you, i tried to change to a homeopathic vet who unfortunately had left by next visit.
I was treated like dirt by one vet as far as he was concerned Jude should have been put down months prior yet he didnt look into those strong determined eyes with that alert knowing brain.
They are all as different as we all are from each other, some show compassion others impatient, unfortunately we are too vulnerable at the time to pull them up on the way they are treating us.
Personally if they are compassionate then they are ok if they show no feeling towards you or Dutchess then ask to see another vet or change surgeries.
To me if she is trying homeopathy then she’s ok.
Love Sue
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