Been thinking a bit lately on the topic of euthanasia. Why is it that we can put pets and animals out of their misery, but we cannot do this to people? When we do it to animals it is "the right decision, the kindest thing, a show of love", but when its considered for people, "It's illegal, it's immoral, it's murder...blah blah blah"

What do you think about it?

I used to be pro-euthanasia until I started hearing about how it is being abused in Holland. It was initially meant for people who were terminal and suffering. However, they started to use it for people with mental disabilities and on young children. So although I initially thought it was a great idea, I am seeing how it is being abused. As far as I am concerned, some of the deaths in Holland reek of the Nazi ideal of ridding society of "undesirables". Since it is being overseen by humans, it is too fallible.

Here is a website discussing it. The article is a bit strident and shrill, but I believe there is validity in it.


http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/003107.php

Also http://www.frtl.org/Euthanasia/euthanasia_..._in_holland.htm and http://www.euthanasia.com/holland99.html

dee dee

So, from what I can see, euthanasia is a good concept but in practice there are not enough controls to ensure it is properly used.

Personally, since I am carrying an illness that is probably terminal in the long run, I support euthanasia over suffering.

I really have to think about this one. On the one hand, if it was me who was doing the suffering and there was absolutely no hope, I would say YES, do it - most definitely. On the other hand, if it's misused it's tragic. All I can say is there are laws in place that prevent it in the U.S. (I don't know about other countries) and, in my mind, for now we need to abide by it. Whether that will ever change in the future, only time will tell.

DJ - I must have been typing my response when you posted yours. I'm so sorry to hear you have an illness that might be terminal.

I wish you every happiness and hopefully some kind of recovery.

All my best,

Traci

You know, I thought about this a lot when I had Shiloh put down. Shiloh had no hope of getting better, she was really suffering, and I was, for lack of a better word, glad that I could put an end to her pain. It was then that I thought of people who are termanilly ill with cancer, in so much pain and all family and friends can do is watch and wait. I remember looking at Shiloh as she struggled for evey breath, and thinking if I was in this condition, I'd want someone to end my suffering.

But, that is scary about what's happening in Holland. I guess in concept it's good, but sometimes we humans can carry things a bit too far.

Oh well....just my thoughts.

Last year my Tiggy had cancer and after an unsuccessful operation had to be put to sleep a week later.

I was happy that I could spare her a lengthy drawn out suffering.

It is a difficult subject, but I myself would like the choice of euthanasia if I wished it. Having been a nurse I know there are some illnesses where the end is very unpleasant and when there is no hope of recovery I think it would be humane to allow people to have the choice.

I live in England which is probably about 50 miles from Holland across the water. I know a lot about Holland and the Dutch culture ... I read the website DeeDee that you posted. Please don't believe what is written there. The Dutch are a very just and caring people. There are huge and lengthy procedures to go through before any sort of euthanasia is allowed. The critieria is that the person is in the last stages of terminal illness beyond hope of recovery and that they have requested it. Even so it has to be authorised by 3 doctors and the patients is also seen by a psyciatrist to see if they are in sound mind and know the decision they are making.

There are no cases of euthanasia being used willynilly on mental ill people etc. like the website said. That would be murder in any country in the world.

Bless all our babies at rainbows bridge.
jilly

Punky's Mommy,
I can honestly say most of the time I find myself wishing we did not have the choice for our pets either. I know that must sound selfish, but if we did not have that choice, who knows maybe Hannah would still be here. It would have been out of my hand's for sure, and sometimes I really do question whether we should have this option. The whole thing still prays on my mind so much. It's just so hard with our companion animals because they can't really SAY what they want. I would really need to HEAR IT IN WORDS that that was what they wanted to know for sure, and then I'm not sure I would be sure it was the right thing!!!

And, I did not wait until Hannah was like unable to walk, eat at all, incontinence, etc. I did not want to see her get like that, but now I question myself. When they get so very, very sick (like a cat a had a long time ago did when she was 17), then there's no doubt. I did not want Hannah to die of a heart attack or stroke, I did not want her to die alone, and I didn't want her to hurt anymore. Sometimes I worry that it was because of MY FEARS for her that I went ahead and did it when I did, EVEN THOUGH the vet said I was doing the right thing. I will never, never, ever know for sure. I just hope in time I can find peace with my decision. I am not there now, and I don't know if I ever will be 100%.

Darling Hannah's Mom,

I'll tell you what it feels like for me, speaking as someone who is probably putting it off as long as possible. I am wondering if it wouldn't be kinder to put him down NOW (or soon) before he really begins to suffer. Right now I have to hand feed him, and he is not having bowel mvmts (went to the vet yesterday for this, and glycerin suppositories are not working). So likely he is uncomfortable. Like I've mentioned in other posts, he is so restless and uncomfortable at night I have to get up and walk him several times. The vet yesterday said that the increase in barometric pressure that happens at night might be putting pressure on his brain, which combined to the cancer that may be spreading there, is causing discomfort. He is not to the point of crying yet when I pick him up. But he does not smile and wag his tail anymore at all. I'm saying all this to just say that I am wondering if I really want Punky to experience the pain that is in store for him. Its a choice between Pain+life vs. Death+void (or Death+heaven..I dont know).

Your little girl was so sweet and pretty judging by your avatar. I can hardly believe she was a dog because she looks for all the world to me like your sugar-and-spice-and-everything-nice daughter. I can't see putting her through the pain that would have come her way. You spared her. I'm getting to that point with my boy.

Thank you about Hannah. She was the cutest tiniest little girl. So sweet. And your Punky is a precious little thing too. How much does he weigh or did he at most? Hannah was 7 pounds.

My heart goes out to you. I was in that "anticipatory grief" stage for several months, at least, worrying so about her, knowing that I probably wouldn't have her a lot longer. It's all so devastating.

I pretty much hand fed her for quite awhile too, and I boiled chicken for her and just kept trying to give her things I thought she would like. Every night for quite some time she had about a tablespoon of vanilla ice cream. I'd say, "Hannah, want some ice cream?" and yes, she wanted the ice cream! I even crunched up her medicine in the ice cream and would feed that to her in a dropper, but then she decided she liked that too and would eat the rest of it from a bowl.

But she was always still happy to see me. The day I took her and was getting ready for us to leave, she got excited as usual about GOING. That absolutely killed me, knowing where I was taking her. The girl at the vet's office said almost every time people bring dogs in to be put to sleep, they wag their tails! Can you imagine? I would go to pieces. I could not imagine dealing with that on a daily basis like they do.

It's so hard because you are the one that has to make the decision. Have you talked to Punky about it, about how he feels, etc.? I had read several articles and in some of the books I've read, this has been suggested many times. Another thing "they" say is to tell them that it's okay for them to leave if they don't feel good anymore and if they are ready to go. To tell them, of course, how much you love them, but that you don't want them to stay just for you because you don't want them to be in pain.

If you haven't already, please go back and read the posts, many of which the titles sound so achingly similar -- "I just want her back!" "I feel so guilty!" "I'm losing my mind!" The remorse/guilt is so immense, and I don't think a lot of us knew that it would be that way, even tho we have learned that it is one of the most common feelings after choosing euthanasia.

Please email or pm me if you would like to talk some more. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Dear Punky's Mom-

I understand completely the dilemma your having about euthanasia.

I'm a huge advocate of talking to your pet about the whole process. I remember one night last summer, Shiloh was laying on the bed, I was working on the computer and I looked over at her. She was laying there with her eyes open and I could tell she was deep in thought...she looked as though she was really anxious about something...not anxious in a bad way, but the anxiousness that you feel before you take a trip...you know, kind of excited, but still a little unsure, and all you want is to start on your journey. That's how she looked and somehow I felt like I was holding her back...I don't know maybe she was feeling excited about her journey, but anxious about leaving me because she knew it would break my heart when she left. Anyway, I went over and just held her and told her that I wasn't ready for her to go, but that I would understand when she couldn't stay any longer. It was that night that we (Shiloh and I) decided on a sign that would let me know when she was ready. She lived life to its fullest up until 2 days before she died...I know she wanted it that way. I have regrets about putting her down, but I've never doubted my decision. She gave me the sign and, as hard as it was, I respected her wishes.

Talk to Punky...hold him close, talk to him, and listen with your heart. He'll let you know.

My thoughts are with you.
Kathleen