Berta
Jun 11 2010, 09:38 PM
Chico is my jumbo chihuahua mix and my best friend and constant companion for 11 years. I got him when he was 9 weeks old and we've been inseparable ever since. He has taught me so much about life and unconditional love. He is my heart.
He has always been big. He's also always been fat. He was hungry when I got him and I've made sure that never happened again! His bowl was never empty. He's always looked like a ham with a chihuahua head stuck on! But my poor baby. Since he was diagnosed with congestive heart failure in September he has gained about 8 lbs of fluid. He weighs about 34 lbs. He can no longer walk due to his enormous belly. Even his legs are swollen so badly. He lives on the couch all day. I pick him up to take him outside a few times a day. I pick him up to take him to his bed beside mine at night. The couch is covered with pads because he has alot of accidents. I hand feed him and hand water him. But he still has a great spirit and still barks at anything that moves outside. He'd really love to get at 'em!
We live in a small town with a small-town vet. His vet says there is nothing else to do for Chico. Just to keep him comfortable until he dies. He takes Enalapril, Lasix and Vetmedin. I had to go to another vet to get the Vetmedin, which saved him in January, because our vet had never heard of it. Obviously the Lasix isn't working properly. I've asked him about a belly tap and he says no, that it is too risky and that he would not do it. I've read online about it and can't decide whether it would be dangerous for him or not. Has anyone here ever had this procedure done to their pet? I don't want to put him at risk, I just want him to have some relief.
I have made an appointment with another vet for Monday. They told me he would refer me to someone in a larger town to get Chico a sonogram and tests that he has never had to see what's going on with his heart. All our vet has ever done is listen to his heart. I am just so worried because I don't even know how I'll pay for all that. I guess I'll have to use a credit card. Times are tough. But I have to do something. It's getting to the point that he sometimes bites me when I try to pick him up and I know it hurts him to move him.
Thanks for listening. I have been really stressed about his condition lately. It is so upsetting when I can't do anything to help him. I'd appreciate any prayers for Chico.
Berta
tahoeden
Jun 11 2010, 09:57 PM
Dear Berta,
Sorry for all the pain both you and Chico are in. My dog, Kota, whom I put down one month ago, was on a lot of meds, and as the doctor said, probably in a lot of pain. That Chico doesn't like to be touched much was also how Kota was, not wanting to be cuddled or hugged anymore. When you see the new vet, have him evaluate the pain that Chico is bearing. Make decisions based on the quality of his life. You are in a tough situation--reality-wise, emotionally and financially. Love Chico, and in this love, try to intuitively hear what Chico is saying and where Chico is at. I know that you must be frantic at a time like this. You'll do the right thing and make the right decisions. Wishing you well.
Dennis
madi
Jun 12 2010, 01:47 AM
I had a small dog that had the same condition as Chico has and for years he had regular injections to relieve the fluid retention and daily meds to keep the fluid from building up too quickly. He lived for years like this and was quite fit in between his injections. Has your vet ever suggested giving injections? they work so quickly. It doesn't seem right to me to just send chico home and simply say keep him comfortable, because he isn't comfortable and he won't be until he can get rid of that fluid. I would be seeking out another vet. I really do hope you can get some help for Chico, he is not living a quality life style the way he is. xx
madi xx
janika
Jun 12 2010, 01:51 AM
Dear Berta
I hope the new vet on Monday is more encouraging, and yes hopefully as Madi says they will advise injections to get rid of all that excess fluid, which should very quickly make dear Chico feel better.
I will be thinking of you both and sending prayers.
Hugs Jan x
Berta
Jun 12 2010, 04:55 PM
Thanks so much for the replies. Mati, what kind of injections did your dog get for the fluid? No, the vet has never mentioned this. That would be wonderful! The only thing I have heard about is the abdominocentesis, which our vet won't do and doesn't recommend. I found a vet a while back that would do that, but she's 30 miles away and I'd have to take him in the morning and pick him up late afternoon. She also said he may have to do this at least once a week, maybe twice. And it is $50 each time. It is just impossible. Not only the money, but the time and leaving him all day, plus the stress for Chico. Injections would be so much better.
Dennis, I am so sorry about your Kota. That's a beautiful name, by the way. There is nothing worse than seeing your baby in pain. I know that Chico has a poor quality of life since he can barely move. But he seems fairly happy when he is in his home on the couch until I try to move him. That makes this so very difficult. He is alert and his old self a lot of the time (since the Vetmedin). He does have some bad days and breathing episodes. But I think he would be alright if it wasn't for all this fluid. But the way he is now is just heartbreaking and I can't bear it. Just a few months ago he was running around the house chasing the cat, but it seems like it's been forever.
Hopefully I will get some answers Monday. I just can't accept that this all that can be done. I appreciate your insight. I have just been so emotional lately and needed to get some of this worry off my chest. I've never seen another dog with ascites as bad as Chico and knew someone here may have been through this before. Thanks.
Berta
Berta
Jun 13 2010, 01:00 PM
Chico woke us up at 2:30 am yelping out in pain. I am really worried about my little man. He's not feeling too well today and I can't get his meds in him yet. Just waiting for tomorrow and hoping it doesn't happen again. That was very disturbing!!
janika
Jun 13 2010, 01:14 PM
Dear Berta
I'm sorry to hear that Chico is not good today. I'm sure you'll be making him as comfortable as possible and just being there for him. Let's hope that tomorrow the new Vet will help to bring relief from his discomfort and a course of action to help improve his condition.
Love and prayers.
Jan and my Angels and Pixie xx
ladywolf
Jun 13 2010, 05:51 PM
Hi Berta--
Sounds like Chico is in something of an emergency. I hope that the new vet treats it as such and finds a solution to his pain and fluid build-up. Hang in there as best you can; at least you already have an appointment tomorrow...
Sending much love--
Margi and Spiritwolf
madi
Jun 14 2010, 10:15 AM
Berta, I can't remember what the actual name of the medication was that the vet administered to my little dog, it was 30 yrs ago. Diuretics were given daily in tablet form, with regular injections to get rid of excess fluid as well. He did really well on the medication, he lived a pretty normal life and he wasn't a young dog. His condition was due to heart failure. I do hope you can get a vet to help Chico, I feel so sorry for the little darling xx
madi xx
Berta
Jun 14 2010, 02:48 PM
The vet recommended euthanasia. There was no point in a referral. He said he would drain some of the fluid if I chose to do that, but it would come back soon and that Chico's organs were already in failure since the edema is in his legs so badly, too. He really is enormous and his belly is crimson from bruising caused by tearing. I am just devastated! I've known in the back of my mind I think, but hearing it is so painful. I am trying to process this and make myself call to make the appointment. I just can't pick up the phone to set a day and time for this. I don't know how I'm going to do this.
MishasMom
Jun 14 2010, 03:09 PM
QUOTE (Berta @ Jun 14 2010, 03:48 PM)

The vet recommended euthanasia. There was no point in a referral. He said he would drain some of the fluid if I chose to do that, but it would come back soon and that Chico's organs were already in failure since the edema is in his legs so badly, too. He really is enormous and his belly is crimson from bruising caused by tearing. I am just devastated! I've known in the back of my mind I think, but hearing it is so painful. I am trying to process this and make myself call to make the appointment. I just can't pick up the phone to set a day and time for this. I don't know how I'm going to do this.
I'm sorry to hear about the vets recommendation. It is a difficult decision. Love is about doing what is right for them and not about us. I tried to make my kitty as happy as I could the night before. There are so many of us that have had to make that decision. We are here for you. I will be praying for you
Karen - Mishasmom
tahoeden
Jun 14 2010, 03:16 PM
Dear Berta,
I'm so sorry that the time has come. On the day, last month, that I put my Kota down, I kept calling the vet, hoping he have a new miracle for me. But the only miracle was the life I had with her, and your miracle was the life the two of you have/had together. I drove around all day with Kota in the back of my car, took her swimming, got her a Taco Bell taco. Called my sister to come over and realized that time had run out. I know how hard it is for you to pick up the phone. With all the vet said, and what you said about her bruising, and other symptoms, it's time for your final act of pure, unconditional love. You are doing her a favor, she is hurting, and when the organs are shutting down it's a slow death. Please, for both your sakes, realized what a wonderful and loving life the two of you have shared. And please realize that it's your decision and I know that you don't want your baby to suffer anymore. Please write and let everyone here know what is happenning. Peace to both of you.
Dennis
Berta
Jun 14 2010, 10:03 PM
I made the call. The appointment is Wednesday at 1:30. I know that this is the right thing to do for my Chico, but it is so hard. I have probably been in denial for quite some time and allowed my pup to suffer longer than he should have. It is just so hard when he is alert and wagging his tail and barking at the mailman. This is the first time I've ever gone through this. I thought he'd be acting sicker than this and the choice would be more clear.
I'm trying to find a way to make tomorrow special for Chico. But he is so uncomfortable he doesn't like to do anything except lay here beside me on his couch. I am going to cook him some ribs, his favorite. Not forcing his meds down him will be a good thing, too. He hates them so much. He will sleep with me and hubby, no matter how many accidents he has on the bed. And of course give him plenty of love and talk to him. Tonight he is being distant. Maybe he knows something. Dogs are so intuitive.
I still don't know how I'm going to do this. I am still in a state of shock and I hope I stay this way for a while. I want to be strong and brave for my boy, and it is so hard to do. Thank you all for your support. It helps so very much! I know most of you have been through this and my heart goes out to all of you.
Berta
smokey/lady/max
Jun 14 2010, 11:00 PM
Click to view attachmentHi Berta
Just hours spent with your boy is special. You dont have to do anything special except love him. Spent every moment you can before Wensday. People have posted so many things that I wished I had done like take a casting in clay of thier paw just little things you dont think when that day arrives. In my situation with my Max I was hit with the news at the vets and made the decision right there and then without having a clear head I wished I would have brought him home for a little longer just to take alittle more time to really say my goodbye. With my Dozer I had no warning and wasnt even home when he died suddenly. So charish the next day with him. Make him his favorite food. I will be thinking of you and your little man. I know you dont think you will be able to do what you have to do, but its our love for them that gives us the strength. It truely is the hardest thing aI have ever had to do and I have had to do it 4 times in my life and each time I swore I could never do it again but our love is so strong that we find away. I will be sending prayers for you. I will ask my Angels to please watch over your little boy.
Hugs
Anna and my Precious Angels
missy
Jun 14 2010, 11:09 PM
My thoughts and prayer will be with you on Weds.
(((hugs)))
tahoeden
Jun 15 2010, 01:49 AM
Dear Berta,
I really do feel your pain. This is the hardest decision a person has to make. Nothing takes away the frantic feeling and dreadful anticipation of what you have to do. I know this next day and a half is torture for you and your husband. Just hold and tell Chico, a million times, how much you love have for Chico. It's hard to imagine, and see, life going on around you when you are facing the inevitable. I was watching Forrest Gump last night, and before his mom died, she told him simply, "Death is just a part of living." I wish I could have Kota back for one more minute to tell her again how much she means to me and how much I love her. Chico knows, and has know her whole life that she has been with you, how much she means to you. Just be with her, just be with her...she loves you too.
Dennis
MishasMom
Jun 15 2010, 11:05 AM
I will be thinking and praying for you today and tomorrow.
janika
Jun 15 2010, 11:34 AM
Dear Berta and Chico
My thoughts and prayers are with you both.
Hugs Jan and my Angels and Pixie xx
Cheryl83
Jun 15 2010, 11:39 AM
Thinking of you through this difficult time. You are doing the right thing for your baby. Cherish every last moment you have with him. Hold him for as long as you possibly can. Tell him everything that's in your heart. This will help with the grieving process afterwards. That's one thing I always think... I wish I held her for longer before she went to see the vet. But I didn't know I wouldn't be getting her back. You have time to say goodbye, so make sure you cherish it.
You're in all our thoughts.
Cheryl xx
Berta
Jun 15 2010, 09:36 PM
Thanks to all of you for your prayers and thoughts and your posts. It is comforting. I am trying to enjoy my last night with Chico, but it's so hard. I just can't believe that this is the last night he will be laying here at my side. He has been in this same spot for 11 years, right beside me. I just can't imagine how empty this couch will be tomorrow night. It will be unbearable. Life will be unbearable. I feel like I should be doing more tonight, but we are just hanging out together, like usual. The time is really, really going too fast. I have never dreaded a day as bad as I dread tomorrow. I am just praying for strength to get through it.
JohnG
Jun 15 2010, 10:24 PM
Berta,
I know how difficult this must be for you right now. I know also that you will cherish every moment you have left with your dear Chico. Stay strong for him. He knows how much you love him.
We are all here for you.
Take care and be well,
John
tahoeden
Jun 15 2010, 10:49 PM
Berta,
I know it seems so surreal, like you want to shake your head and open your eyes and this was all a bad dream. You are with Chico now, giving her the same love she has deserved and gotten from you throughout your lives together. This is the hardest night you'll ever go thru. Be strong for Chico...and being strong means being honest with your feelings and emotions. Comfort her, she's not scared, she's still in the moment with you. Blessings to both of you
Dennis
MishasMom
Jun 16 2010, 11:35 AM
Praying for you during this time.
madi
Jun 16 2010, 08:35 PM
Thinking of you Berta and sending my prayers and love xx
madi xx
ladywolf
Jun 17 2010, 12:34 PM
Just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you too, Berta, and sending loads of love. Do write when you can--but I also understand when the pain is to great to be able to post at all...
Big big hugs--
Margi and Spiritwolf
MishasMom
Jun 17 2010, 08:43 PM
Still keeping you in my thoughts and prayers Berta. When you are able let us know how you are doing. hugs
Berta
Jun 17 2010, 09:08 PM
Thanks for all the thoughts, love and prayers for me and Chico from you all. The support has meant so much to me and has really helped more than you know.
Chico's transition was very peaceful and he died in my arms hearing my voice comforting and loving him. I am so thankful for that. My boy was so sick. The timing was right. He was having a hard time breathing when we got to the vet's. I asked the vet to give him a sedative first and he gently went to sleep in my arms. I really think it was the sedative that released him. Chico's edema in his legs was so bad that the vet couldn't get the solution in a vein, it went under the skin. But Chico passed before he could try another vein. It was time. I just didn't realize how close to death and how very tired he was and it breaks my heart that I didn't see that. Bless his tough little heart! I must have been in denial not to see how sick and tired he was.
That was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Now comes the worst part. The emptiness and the absense of this little guy is overwhelming. It's almost unbearable. I can't believe all this has happened since I posted the other day about my heart dog. Now he's just gone. I will have to reprogram my whole life and thought process. Everything in my life has revolved around Chico for so very long. It's a sad and different world without him.
ladywolf
Jun 17 2010, 09:28 PM
Oh, Berta, I am so very sorry for your loss of Chico. But glad to hear that he went so peacefully and lovingly. I'm sure he is thanking you for allowing him to be released from his pain and discomfort...
Yes, you do have to reprogram your whole life and thought process, and it's really really hard. Tonight I was at a friend's house, and when it got to be almost seven, I said to her, "Oh goodness, I have to go home to Ladywolf and give her dinner and her insulin..." And then realized that I didn't have to go home to anyone at all, for any reason... Yes, it is indeed a "sad and different world."
Almost everyone here has experienced what you are going through now, and we know how hard it is. Bless this Forum for existing, and being filled with warm-hearted, compassionate, wise people who are willing to share of themselves in so many ways. I'm glad that it has been of help to you and know that it will continue to be...
My heart goes out to you in this challenging, painful time!
Big hugs from Margi and Spiritwolf
MishasMom
Jun 17 2010, 10:16 PM
Berta, I'm so sorry about Chico. You gave him great comfort and love being there with him. You loved him enough to let him go and be free from pain. Life will be an adjustment. It is very hard after they leave us. Just know that we are here for you.
Each of us just have to take one day at a time. I'm sure for many of us we wouldn't know what to do with ourselves if we didn't have this forum to reach out to.
Karen - Mishasmom
MissingHolly
Jun 17 2010, 10:51 PM
Dear Berta:
I know what a difficult time you are going through. I went through the same thing not even a week ago with my Shih Tzu Holly. Losing a family member is the hardest thing you'll ever go through. I still find myself having to stop my normal motions of filling up my dog's bowl in the morning when she's not here to enjoy it, but I am comforted by my family and the other pets that remain. After having my dog for sixteen years and having her die in my arms I was unsure of how or if I should just keep going, but I found the strength because I know that she is happy and no longer in pain. Putting her to sleep was the most kind thing I'd ever done for her, I think, because she was suffering a slow death. Know that, while it is difficult, you did your little guy a great kindness and he loves you all the more for it. He's with you in spirit and he'll never leave your side, no matter what.
I don't know if you considered it, but I had Holly cremated and, with her ashes here, I feel more at ease with my decision than before. The vet had her privately cremated the very next day by someone he knows very well, so I didn't have to wait for the SPCA to get around to it (down here they take weeks to cremate our beloved pets and I was dreading that that was what was going to happen to Holly). I'm not sure if you wanted Chico cremated or if you wanted him buried, but you have options.
Know that everyone here understands and feels your pain. I'm praying for you and Chico, but I imagine he is enjoying himself with the many other dogs and cats that are on Rainbow Bridge. Perhaps he's even running around with Holly, probably wanting to play with her favorite socks.
I have you both in my prayers and I am willing to be a cyber shoulder should you need someone to talk to or rant at.
Kat
tahoeden
Jun 18 2010, 12:04 AM
Dear Berta,
I agree what everyone before me has just stated. I'm so sorry you have to go thru this. I, like others though, are relieved that your beloved Chico is out of pain. Chico was a trooper to the very end. And yes, it's so hard to have to reinvent your life, all the things you do now are "firsts" with Chico. Keep writing here, expressing your feelings, check out the chat room. Now is the time where it's hard to believe that Chico is gone, kind of like being in shock. After over a month, I still try to "will" my Kota to come back to me. But I know it can't happen. It's the saddest thing there is to lose a lifelong love, friend and companion as you have just gone through. Thinking of you and sending good thoughts to Chico.
Dennis
janika
Jun 18 2010, 01:40 AM
Dear Berta
I send my heartfelt sympathies to you on the loss of your beloved Chico. What a blessing that he went peacefully in his mummys arms, being comforted.
You are both in my thoughts and prayers. Please come back and post when you can, we are all here for you.
Hugs
Jan and My Angels and Pixie xx
JohnG
Jun 18 2010, 02:54 AM
Dear Berta,
As with everyone else here I want to express my deepest sympathies for your loss. Although it was a terribly difficult decision to make, you can find comfort in that your Chico is no longer in pain and that he was so very loved. I know how difficult it is, almost too much to take. Trying to go on with even the simplest daily tasks can be a monumental effort. But this community, as I've recently discovered after losing my own sweet Gabby, is a wonderful place to express your pain and seek comfort from caring, like-minded souls going through very similar ordeals. So many wonderful people have helped me keep going when I just wanted to give up and I hope we can do the same for you.
Be well,
John
mom2stew
Jun 18 2010, 02:56 PM
Dear Berta,
I'm so familiar with what you're feeling right now. It was 8 weeks ago today that I had to let go of my own sick boy, Stew, who had heart failure. I want you to know that it's a slow process trying to get on with life. I broke down today for no particular reason at all except that I miss him so much. Do continue to come back here to talk, there is so much support here, so much more than the people in my day-to-day life were able to offer me. I hope you know that you did exactly what you had to do for him. I still question my decision even though I know that's silly, but when you're grieving it's hard to think straight.
I'm thinking of you and Chico, for what it's worth...you're not alone in your sadness.
Kelly
Berta
Jun 18 2010, 09:57 PM
First I want to tell each of you how very sorry I am for your losses of your precious furbabies. My heart goes out to every single person on this forum. We are all suffering such painful losses of our beloved pets who just loved us, totally and completely, and it's heartwrenching.
I am going through the anger stage of grief today. I am blaming everyone starting with my neighbor who bitched last summer about Chico pooping in her yard and resulted in his not being able to run around free anymore and got less exercize. Then there's the idiot vet we used who did nothing but give him meds and tell me he was sorry there was nothing else to do. Then especially there is me, who listened to him and let it get out of hand. Since it is over and Chico is gone, I can see in retrospect how sick he was and I let it go too far. Why couldn't I see it before? I had friends hint to me months ago that maybe it was time to let him go, but I ignored it. Of course Chico put up a brave front to me, but I should have known better. And this vet was telling me that Chico wasn't ready to go. I knew in my heart that he was. I hope he forgives me for being so stupid and hanging on too long and allowing him to suffer.
It will truly be very hard to adjust to life without him. My first waking thought is to listen for his breathing. I have been doing that automatically for 9 months. Grocery shopping is about him and what he eats, when I do occasionally eat out I order something Chico likes so I can bring him home some food. Days are planned around him. I never go anywhere except to work, then come home a couple of times to check on him, etc. My life has revolved around my little dog. I'm sure you all know what I mean. I put my job at risk last month because I refused to go to a 3 day meeting. There's no way I could leave my dog. It was out of the question. He always came first in my life, before my job, my husband or even my daughter and grandkids.
Thanks for giving me a place to vent tonight. I am just consumed with grief right now and needed to rant some.
tahoeden
Jun 19 2010, 01:29 AM
Berta,
Everything you wrote makes perfect sense. You loved Chico, and I think you honored Chico by not going to your 3 day meeting. I did the same thing with fast food. Near the end, Kota was a picky eater but always scarfed down a Taco Bell taco. I had a fridge full of them. I haven't been able to eat at Taco Bell since she passed. I know exactly, and I mean down to the teardrop, how consumed with grief you are over your loss. Today is 6 weeks to the day that I lost my little girl, and today I feel just as heartbroken as the day she passed. This is not to say that this'll be your timetable for grief. It's good that you are able to let out your anger. I haven't really had the anger but more of the disbelief and bargaining for her to be back again. Please try not to be hard on yourself or second guess that maybe you kept Chico too long. How does one let go of a love so precious? Of course he came first in your life...both of your hearts beat as one. Losing our best friend is such a tragedy. I've been ranting all day, to no one in particular, just in my mind. Wishing you some peace that Chico is now at peace.
Dennis
ladywolf
Jun 19 2010, 02:31 PM
Hi Berta--
I am so sorry that you are having to go through the cycle of grieving that all of us have experienced. Anger is often one of the more energizing stages of grief--at least it wakes us up! Anger at anything, reasonable or unreasonable, is to be expected and is accepted. I can't believe the directions my anger took after the death of one of my beloveds--but at least it kept me functioning-- in a dysfinctional way! By now you are probably out of anger and into some other stage anyway...
I am just so sorry for your loss. Comfort yourself with the fact that Chico went very peacefully and probably very gratefully. Getting used to not having them around is a very long, drawn-out process. Months after my last dog, Poppers, left, I was still looking for her on walks that we all three might have taken together, me, Ladywolf, and Poppers. She was always...missing.
I don't have a lot of add that others haven't already said. Be gentle on yourself, remember to keep breathing, and try to do nice things for yourself.
Much love from Margi and Spiritwolf
mom2stew
Jun 19 2010, 09:33 PM
I agree with what others have said. I read somewhere that when you're in the process of grieving, you should "indulge in simple pleasures." I did this, and I think it helped me. It helped distract me, and helped clear my head to think more clearly about the decisions I made around Stew's death. So whether it's a dessert, manicure, bath, trashy book or magazine, whatever...if it's at all appealing to you right now, indulge.
MishasMom
Jun 20 2010, 10:41 AM
Berta,
It's natural to feel anger. I think we all have. I was kind of feeling the same thing you were that same day. I was angry at why I couldn't see my kitty anymore. I was angry at people that had cats. I was angry at why we have to go through this pain and heartache. I'm having a better day today. I hope you are too.
I agree that we should try to do things to distract ourselves for a little while from our grief. It doesn't dishonor our love for them.
ladywolf
Jun 20 2010, 02:16 PM
It seems to me that the more you try to engage in other activities, like indulging yourself, spending time with friends, etc., the easier the grieving process is going to be. For example, you can't really laugh out loud and grieve in the same moment. I have one friend who is very very funny, and I am spending the most time that I can with her right now--it's very therapeutic when the two of us get going on something ridiculous!
Anger is one of the five "defined" stages of grieving (I put that in quotes, because there seem to be more than five after all.) Anger can be very powerful and energizing--at least you're not lying around feeling sorry for yourself. When Ladywolf was diagnosed with cancer, I got REALLY angry at the cancer and went to war against it--and I KNOW that that's why she lived many months longer than she was "supposed to." So roll with the anger when it comes up--it's actually GOOD for you!
So sorry, again, Berta, for your loss...
Big Hugs--Margi and Spiritwolf
Berta
Jun 20 2010, 02:20 PM
Yesterday I wallowed in my grief all day. Today I am trying to figure out something to do to get my mind off things. I just can't think of anything I want to do or anywhere I want to go. I'm kinda stuck today. But at least I'm not so angry.