My thread is at Goodbye Rosie Goodbye Family, but I really need all your prayers.

My last 5 year old cat Zeus cat threw up late last night and wasn't purring so I knew he wasn't feeling well. He didn't eat this morning so I phoned the vet. He was acting totally normal until late last night.

He has a urinary blockage and is undergoing surgery. He is 5 years old. I've had a lot of losses, and I really need him to pull through this. The vet said that he may have kidney damage. He appeared really healthy until this.

Unfortunately it's a long weekend and they need me to decide whether to bring him home, to leave him at a different vet's office, one I've never been to, or take him to another city for 24 hour hospitalization. The local vet's office does not have 24 hour surveillance, and I'm tempted to bring him home. But on the other hand, I'm not sure about what complications there could be - does anyone have advice on this?

Need some advice quickly...

thanks

Jan.

i had the same problem with my cat riley . i would advice to leave him in another hospital. riley's doc also told me the same thing: the danger is that there may be kidney damage. therefore it is imperative that he be monitored thru the night. if he has kidney failure, his little body will begin to retain fluid and that is very painful for them. and ultimately his body could shut down. if hes at home, you wont know what to do. im actually very surprised that they gave you the option of bringing him home as after surgery, riley was fed intervenously and was constantly being given fluids as he was very dehydrated as a result of the blockage. also, his diet changed from that moment on and he was given a very high fiber diet...
my prayers are with you and zeus.

patricia

Hi Jan............I am so sorry to hear you have yet another stressful event to deal with.

Though I don't know what complications are possible, I can say that I would want to have one of mine with 24 care. You live in a remote area and IF an emergency happens, where would you be then? You'd be by yourself trying to manage Zeus and also trying to drive there quickly.

You and Zeus are in my prayers right at this moment. I'd feel better for both of you if you took him to stay at the 24 hour clinic. Please keep us updated Jan.

Huggers,
Beth

Hi Patricia, Beth

Thank you both for the advice.

Zeus got through the surgery and he's on IV fluids, catheter needs changing, special meds etc etc. When I spoke to the vet tech, who is also a friend of mine she suggested the best option was the vet closest to me which is not 24 hours but they will drop in several times a day tomorrow. I feel really bad that Zeus is alone in a vet hospital but he needs special care and of course tomorrow is a holiday so my regular vet is not available. The vet tech said the operation went well, I don't really know what damage could have been done to his kidneys, I guess time will tell. This is where I need all your healing prayers!! I couldn't afford this expense, but I couldn't afford not to either, so there it is.

My dad was over and offered to take Zeus to the bigger city vet which is where he lives, but that is an hour and 40 minutes away, and my dad would be devastated if anything had happened on the way. I think where Zeus is, is the best option. To top it off my dad fell down doing some work and gashed up his face - he came in with blood gushing all over him, including a big bruise on his temple, then proceeded to do that long drive home. My dad is 76 so not a young thing. I called him and he made it okay. What a day! You'd think I was making this stuff up, what drama!! Last Thursday my water filter burst and water was spraying everywhere. I'm on a well, and made about 6 phone calls to find out who even dealt with that sort of thing. Oh joy! But that is minor compared to poor Zeusy and how sick he was. I can't believe he was so bad, but still jumping on my head early in the morning and demanding food. I just can't believe he was so near death but acting so normal... life is so impermanent isn't it....?

When I drove him to the clinic he was meowing that really loud distressed meow, saying "I hurt mommy, I hurt." It breaks my heart that he's by himself hurting so bad.

I'm hoping he is surrounded by his angel cat friends and others, and that they are sending him healing and love to help him get through.

Jan.

Oh Jan I am so sorry to hear your Zeus is sick. I know what you are going through. Last weekend my cat Nubis spent 48 hours in the ER vet in an oxygen cage fighting for his life (exactly one week after my cat Ivy went into heart failure). Nubis went into heart failure and was given a shot of predisone which pushed him further into heart failure (cats with heart conditions can't have predisone shots). He has asthma also so we first thought it was asthma, but it turned out to be his heart.

At one point on Friday night when I went to see him and he was crouched in the back of his oxygen cage, not responding to me at all, just staring and breathing so very very labored and fast I think it completely broke my heart. I am having a hard time getting that image out of my mind. I am sure that is what you are dealing with, too. My heart goes out to you during this difficult time.

I am sending lots of prayers and love to Zeus. It also helped me to imagine my kitties feeling better, breathing better, and just sending healing thoughts of love to them (thanks to a suggestion from FK Mom). My anxiety was at an all time high last weekend, I know you have to be going through that right now, too. I know it so scary. Zeus is strong, and he made it through the surgery, and is on IV fluids, so he is through the first hump. Also just keep reminding yourself that he is in the best place he can be right now to get better with the vet techs and the IV fluids. The surgery went well, so Zeus just has to relax and recover right now. Please keep us updated when you can. I am so sorry you are having to go through this. But it's so good you were able to catch this and get him in for surgery.

Is your Dad Ok, also? That sounds like a nasty fall.

Hugs and positive healing thoughts to Zeus,
~NM

hi jan! im so happy you decided to leave zeus in the medical center. he will be looked after and i KNOW he will pull thru. i so understand how hard it is to leave him by himself but its going to be ok. im so sorry youve been thru so much lately. you know the saying when it rains it pours. but you are not alone. and after all, theres no where to go but up now right? this too shall pass and good times are ahead and more importantly, zeus will be back home where he belongs. re: the expense? boy i know what youre talking about. i wont even go into what i spent on my cats, but you are right, they are so worth it. and when you are feeling down and thinking how am i going to get thru this financially and otherwise, remember that the lord will reward you and bless you 10x over for taking care of one of his creatures and for having such a loving and big heart.
my prayers are with you. and please let us know how zeus is doing.
patricia

Hi Jan, sorry for ringing in so late here.
I had two males that regularly got blockages, my heart would stop when they would come
out the litter box without voiding for the first time.

You made the right decsion in keeping Zeus close to home.
What a great name for a kat. I'm sending all my postive karma your way.

Take Care

I'm glad Zeus made it through the surgery. Hopefully kidney damage will be minimal to non-existant since you were able to get him help right away.

We have two male cats that we have to monitor closely for kidney stones. Our vet recommended Dosquin which is a natural supplement used for joint inflammation but he has had remarkably good luck using it for cats with FLUTD. Our boys have been on it for years and it's worked great.

My sister's cat had to have P.U. surgery which removes the small portion of the urethra and the penis, and the larger opening was "re-routed" so he pees like a girl cat now. Supposedly stones can pass through this opening easier.

Anyway, I'm sending my thoughts and prayers your way and asking God to keep Zeus in His loving care.

((((HUGS))))
Deanna

Hi Nemo's Mom

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm so sorry that you are dealing with life threatening problems with Nubis and Ivy. I just found your thread and posted. I'm sorry you are going through all this, and that I didn't offer support earlier.

I just can't believe how quickly Zeus's condition was life threatening. I just cleaned his litter box, and it seemed like there was fresh pee in it. The vet tech said that with boy cats, one of the signs is licking themselves a lot. I recall him doing that once, but now I'll be on full alert. I need to also find out what a normal bladder feels like, so I know if something is not right.

I called my dad and he made it home - he said it looked worse than it was. But that's my dad - he underplays everything!

take care you too!

Jan

Patricia

Thank you for your faith, prayers and confidence. It was hard not to see him today, but the vet did finally call. She said he was bright but uncomfortable. He apparently pulled out his IV, but she said he was well hydrated now. She asked me if I wanted to give him a pain killer and I'm so glad she did, because I knew last night he was very much in pain. So I hope that helps him get through tonight. I will see him tomorrow and he will probably come home in the afternoon.

thanks again for your healing thoughts.

Jan.

Thanks Bue's Mommy

Were you able to prevent future blockages? I am so concerned that I won't see symptoms, like this last time. I will keep Zeus inside only until he is fully recovered so I can check the litter box.

He will be on preventative food for the rest of his life. I just hope that I am able to stop this from ever happening again, and really need to know what to look for in future...

He will have the catheter out tomorrow morning, then spend some time at the vet until early afternoon, so they can monitor if he is peeing on his own.

Thanks for sending all that positive energy and I'm hoping his healing will be rapid and complete!

Jan

Hi Deanna

Thanks for the info. I looked up Dasuquin and found this link - http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/products/anima...suquin_cats.asp

It only talks about joint inflammation, I wonder why it would help cats with FLUTD? The vet tech said that Zeus should only eat the medicated diet for crystal prevention, so I'm nervous to give him anything else... but also very interested in why the Dasuquin might work?

I hope my Zeus is feeling better tonight. Although I know he is getting the care he needs, I really want him back home.

Thank you for all your thoughts and prayers. I hope they help Zeus to heal quickly and to feel more comfortable. My poor baby. He is so easy going and it's awful to see him in distress.

Jan.

So sorry, Jan, I missed all of this latest with you and Zeus.. I only have a minute here, but just wanted to add (what else?) a different slant on this.

Sabin had a few episodes of FLUTD, too, when he was younger, doing the licking thing, etc. He never did block, thankfully, but I had to monitor him for quite awhile. However, as usual, I did things differently, and as usual, it was (what else but?) homeopathic treatment that got rid of that problem for good. Before we had our integrative vet, as most cats do with regular vets, he got put on a 'preventive' canned food - for about a year, I think it was. He didn't care much for the stuff. Later, I found out more about what's in such food (already posted extensively on such things long ago, so wont' repeat myself here) and once I had our better vet, we pulled him off it. Along with the homeopathic modality, that's also when I began doing a raw food diet along with their high-quality canned food (NOT preventive stuff), and we never had another problem with any of that. What I learned, in essence, was that it's basically crappy food that most often causes crystal formation in the first place. So as I and all the "experts" keep saying, a high quality (and more natural if possible) diet is the single most key piece to the prevention of illness in the first place.

You want to avoid having that permanent catheterization operation if at ALL possible, as more cats than not have terrible problems once their urethra & penis has been removed, so it's no fun for either them or their people. There's lots of info. on the web about that now but that's what I learned from our vet long before such articles were so widely 'out there.'

The natural anti-inflammatory supplement might help, I'd hazard to guess, simply because it's helping to remove &/or avoid bodily inflammation in the first place.....if it also targets general inflammation and not just in joints. There are a number of good supplements that can be used for preventing &/or treating crystal formation, in both western herbals and Chinese herbals, but you need to have qualified vet. supervision in using them. Much, in the way of proper treatment, also depends on exactly which KIND(s) of crystals are present.

No, it's not great that Zeus is only checked up on every once in awhile at the clinic, but it's a tough call, and that's often the problem with rural living, with no Emerg. clinics close enough by. The lone Emerg. clinic we had when Sabin needed one (only once, and not for this, but for his initial collapse prior to his cancer diagnosis) was about an hour away, in the heart of the city. (things have expanded a lot since then)

In the meantime, you could try the same exercise I'd suggested to NM - here. (should be right up your alley)
You should also check out: this , even though it will now only be available as an "On Demand" class (not live, but the info. still downloadable with the smaller payment), and this, on food ingredients. And as always, there is often an emotional component to urinary blockages as well, so FEs can help as well (not going to link to all those I've posted as there are many, which can be found by using the search feature or "find member's topics" feature).

Here's a short list of some holistic vets around you, from another forum with people's recommendations:

Dr. Marlene Smith is the most amazing and incredible veterinarian. She does Traditional Chinese Medicine, acupuncture, western herbs, Chiropractic, homeopathy, essences and more. She also will work long distance around the world, with your regular veterinarian. She trains veterinarians in acupuncture in the U.S. and Canada and she is a past president of The American Holistic Veterinary Association. She is an incredibly warm, loving and gifted person. She works closely with Dr. Heather Matheson who shares her clinic with her, works with her, and is also incredibly amazing. They are the perfect team !!

The address is 1777 Riverside Lane, Courtenay B.C. Canada 250 338-2316 email is treeoflifevet@shaw.ca


Dr. Jane Kettner, is a wonderful friendly and talented animal Chiropractor. I have seen her do amazing things to help animals. Her address is 1389 Slater St. Victoria B.C. Canada V8X 2P8 her phone number is 250 384-3732 email is jkettnerdc@shaw.ca


My dog goes to Kindred Spirits Veterinary Hospital Inc.

Phone:250-380-9611
Address: 1248 Fort Street, Victoria, BC V8V 3L2 Canada

They do acupuncture, homeopathy, herbs, and Chinese medicine as well as regular vet stuff. There are two vets working.


One of my clients has had great sucess with Dr. Alison Baylea in Victoria B.C. She does acupuncture and is a holistic veterinarian. She is also at Kindred Spirits.
Phone:250-380-9611 Address: 1248 Fort Street, Victoria, BC V8V 3L2 Canada

I know there are even more homeo. vets in Vancouver, some of whom would likely work over the phone. At least one of them has taken advanced training with Dr. Pitcairn, too. See one such list here. (I notice there's a mobile vet there, too; not sure where-all she works, though)

Zeus and you are in my thoughts during yet another difficult time!

Hello all.

Thanks for the support, and at the moment things are looking good for Zeus. I was able to bring him home yesterday afternoon. Though he is still somewhat uncomfortable, he is using the litter box (quite frequently, I guess because of the irritation) but he is not blocked at the moment. He is good about taking his pills, but his throat is sore from the tube during surgery so he's coughing a bit. He was bright and chipper this morning, doing the usual jumping on my head for his morning meal. So I feel better. He was very glad to be home, purring lots and lots. You would not know he had been through life threatening surgery.

However, he says that the canned vet food tastes like shoe leather! I've been mixing in some of the dry food they gave with water and he eats that.

Thanks for all your prayers and support. Please continue sending your positive energy for his maximum healing.

Thanks for being there for me also.

Jan.

Hi F's mom

Thanks for all the resources. I am familiar with most of them and have even visited a few.

I am very uncertain about which route to go with holistic or vet based medicine. I myself went to a naturopath and acupuncturist when I had what turned out to be some life threatening health problems, and I almost died, literally. I haven't had success with the naturopathic diet for myself. The naturopath I went to suggested all sorts of things for me that I am extremely allergic to (and these were the results of her own allergy testing). The diet was so limiting and restrictive that there were basically no fruits I could eat... etc etc. So I am of very mixed opinion about some of the holistic practictioners out there.

I do agree that pet food is basically junk, and probably the vet pet food, is junk with meds added. I spoke to the vet tech about holistic alternatives and she believes that the diet Zeus is on is the safest right now.

I am really not sure. I really prefer animals to eat fresh foods, but I don't want to make matters worse right now. I know someone else who was going to one of the naturopathic vets for her dogs with cancer and the results were quite limited. This is not to say it wouldn't work for another animal, or that another practitioner may have a better plan, but just that I haven't had very positive experiences with some of the local holistic practitioners.

Having said that I am open to putting Zeus on a raw food diet or other diet, if there is evidence and support for this plan. It's so confusing with all the various opinions.

I will look into this more and appreciate any info you are offering. This morning I have the joy of working on my separation agreement. I am sure worn out!

Jan.

Just wanted to say hello and I'm coming in late also.

I am so glad Zeus made it throught the surgery and is at home. Bet that sure feels wonderful. (for the both of you)

Continued support and prayers!!!!!!

Keep us informed of his progress!!!

Hugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That certainly sounds like the news we were hoping from, we shall keep our positive waves and prayers coming your way, so glad that Zeus is better , and how great it must feel for him to be HOME with mama. Trust me Jan, those are the relationships worth living for! So rich, beyond the ordinary. Easy does it and may all be soothed as you should be, be well and soar towards life's so many wonderful new days and months and years. Offer quiet thanks and on towards the best, for you, for yours, for lives so well lived. Happy Easter

He will be on preventative food for the rest of his life. I just hope that I am able to stop this from ever happening again, and really need to know what to look for in future...

im so happy to hear that your little one is doing well and is back home where he is safe and happy. my cat riley too was on vet food for the remainder of his life. and even then we went through another round of urinary blockage, only this time i was prepared and we caught it very early on, before it became life threatening. it also happened about 6 years later. his vet told me that it is very common among male cats and it is hard to prevent it from happening again. but still we dont want our babies to suffer. so i just kept a lookout for the very obvious. i knew that riley was my little troublemaker, so that was sign number one for me. he slowed down and would sit still. his vet told me when they start having a blockage, it begins to feel very uncomfortable and eventually very painful, so they hold very still and try not to move. also i noted that riley would go to his litter box and hardly anything, if anything would come out. after the first time i kept a very close eye on that. the licking part, well he licked himself a lot anyways so i couldnt tell the difference. also i kept a very watchful eye on his weight because i noted that the first time it happened he was a little bit bloated. and the last thing was (as elementary as this may sound) i trusted my gut. and im glad i did, because the minute i felt something was wrong, i rushed him in. they were able to catch it very quickly and he was out in a day and a half. they told me that he didnt have any pain, he was just starting to feel a bit icky. i know all of these things i mentioned, really doesnt sound like much, but i hope it helps a little bit.
i certainly hope that you dont have to go thru this again, and i like to think that positive thinking is the key. just remember that for every hardship we go thru whether it be with our fur babies or in our own personal life, something can be learned. you will be a stronger person. remember "this too shall pass".
p

Thank you Patricia. I really hope I can catch signs in the future. I am quite afraid right now about this happening again. I need to feel his tummy more so I know what "normal" feels like.

Jan.

Hi Jan, the vet had me buy dry food with a low ash content. I'm not sure what the protocol is today?
The vet also said if I did feed them canned food, it should be chicken or turkey, this was a long time ago.
Twubby, and Ian had about 4 blockages between them, so the food did help.

I'm glad to hear your baby is on the mend Jan.
Till this day, if one of my feline crew goes into the litter box, and comes right back out, my heart stops.
None of my current kittez has ever had it. I have 2 girls, and one boy.

Take Care

Hi Bue's Mommy

The vet has given me prescription food - this food has medication in it. Zeus doesn't like it though. Then after there is preventative food. I'm sure there are better foods for cats that are holistic, maybe raw foods etc. but I am very nervous to try anything given that Zeus almost died last week. Even if the nutritional value of the vet food is so-so, it is specifically made to prevent that sort of blockage, so for now that's what I'll stick to.

I just spoke to a friend whose cat had the same thing. She brought him in for surgery and he died in euthanasia. Zeus is so special, I am so glad he made it. The poor boy is so resilient. He didn't show his pain until he was near death. That's the scary thing.

I just send out my wishes and prayers for his continued healing. He is just 5 years old, and I'd like him to have many more happy, healthy years....

Jan.

Hi all, my Rohan had blockage last August, hospitalized twice in one week and very nearly died. I knew it really took the stuffing out of him, and even now months later, I know he's not back to normal. I need to take him back to the vet to see how his kidneys are functioning. He's never regained the weight he lost last summer. He plays well, and is in good spirits, but his fur has never been smooth again. He has the rumply fur of a cat with weak kidneys. I've been in denial over it, but when I look at him sometimes, and really see him, he looks fragile. Breaks my heart.

He flat rejected the vet food, so I had to balance food risk vs. developing a fatty liver. One big change is that his diet is almost completely wet food; the vet said that extra moisture was the single biggest way to prevent crystals. He has the uncommon kind, not oxalate but the other (can't recall the name at the moment). Stress was a huge part of why he got blocked -- I'd been traveling and was gone for nearly a month -- it was a huge stress for him. When I got home I found out I'd been fired, so I switched to all-dry food, and that was the final straw.

I'd like to switch to an all-raw diet. I started at one point, but they really didn't like it, even when it was just tiny bits mixed in with their regular food. I hate handling raw meat, so it was a challenge I fell away from when they kept rejecting it. Ideas?? ~Kim

Hi Kim

I'm so sorry about Rohan, it's very scary. Zeus hates the food he's on as well. I feed him and he leaves it sit, meowing and meowing at me. He never complained about food before so the stuff must be pretty bad. I am so afraid to try anything alternative, especially at this very critical time. I don't know if it's the medicine that makes the food taste bad. Zeus has been under lots of stress too as have I for quite awhile. I am giving him a lot more attention since I almost lost him. I am so lucky he is alive at all. I cannot believe it came that close.

I am so nervous and don't know what to do. If he were on a holistic diet, it would have to be specifically for his particular problem. And I would need to see a lot of research or facts proving this is really the right thing. If anybody has info I'd appreciate it too.

Thanks Kim.

Jan.

The first vet was all about selling me the food, but the second and third vets were very clear that moisture was the single most important element about his diet. Cheap wet food he'll eat is better than dry healthy food he won't eat. They suggested I add water or even low sodium chicken broth to his wet food. One vet suggested adding a little clam juice, but since I think that's gross beyond words (childhood prank, long story) I was relieved Rohan thought it was gross too.

Until last summer, I had never even heard of urinary blockages, despite having lots of male cats. But we only fed them wet food. I think that's the key. Most dry food now is just carbohydrates (corn meal, etc.) that cats don't have the digestive tract to digest properly. (The person who invented dry cat food in the 1950s based the ingredients on a human diet.) Cats' digestive tract is way too short to break down grains -- their natural diet is nearly all small animal protein.

I do feed them some dry food, but I switched to Natural Instincts, which is grain-free. The wet vet food -- I may as well have been opening the can and scooping it into the trash. Since I have four cats, and have little control over who eats what, I had to put everybody on it, and all four looked at me night after night, "Are ya kiddin' me??" So now they get Friskies and Meow Mix wet. As I said, I want to move them to an raw diet -- I should get some discipline back for another attempt.

Make sure lots of water is available, and indulge them with running water. I have three bowls around the house, and both my boys have me well-trained to turn on the faucet and let them drink from a thin stream of water. Also, I tore apart a small tabletop fountain and set the pump in the bottom of one bowl with a little piece of plastic tubing so it shoots up a little stream of water. That's their favorite bowl to drink from -- the noise attracts them.

Please see this and this, as well as these:

"It's For the Animals" book excerpt
Dr. Hamilton's book
Holisticat page on FLUTD (some of the many ways this can be addressed, BUT herbals, homeopathics, other supplements should never be tried, willy-nilly, w/o an animal being under the care of an experienced holistic vet; we used a number of these same protocols for Nissa, but ALL were based on HER individual needs, conditions and particulars, as some didn't suit her or would have been riskier or even dangerous for HER -- why you shouldn't do this on your own)
Article on FLUTD/link to diet
Discussion on FLUTD, diet, better canned foods in Canada, links to raw food Yahoo group, other related material
RawMeatyBones site
Basics of Feline Nutrition by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM (of note, her discussion on crystals - I had many educative discussions with Nissa's 2 holistic vets about this, did urinalyses every month for years (by my choice, & learned a lot by seeing the test results verifying their solid knowledge of dif. aspects of cystitis/FLUTD, etc.), sometimes doing a culture as required...and can attest to the validity of bacteria most often NOT being a cause, or even present; a number of other factors play large parts in which natural trtmnts. are needed for a particular case -- but that's what I was paying both vets to figure out and then educate me on; never did do direct-from-the-bladder samples, though, as Dr. H. found them unnecessarily stressful to most cats, and I was instead instructed on properly-done "free catch" methods, with our local holistic vet easily accounting for that in the lab results)
Another discussion from someone with much experience to share (check out her bio. info. on the left)

After you read these, you will see what a huge factor a healthy diet is in both treating and curing many ailments in animals, including FLUTD related illnesses, and why these prescription diets are basically crap, to be blunt. I don't blame ANY cat for having the good sense to not want to eat them. We'd tried these many years ago, for Sabin -- not only didn't do squat for his own irritation, but as most cats do, he hated them. Took him off them w/i a very short time....and began my re-education into diets and never looked back. He never had another urinary episode again, after homeopathic trtmnt. and a good (better) diet change. Had they had as many of the newer research and info. on WHOLE food raw diets back then, that's what my kids would have been eating, I'm sure. I only used Dr. Pitcairns. recipes for homemade foods because at the time, it was one of the best ones available. Now even I know that the grains in it weren't optimum, and wouldn't repeat it if I could help it.

There are also now quite a few online support groups for feeding raw diets (some links were in some of these articles) and I'd suggest you check some of those out as well. Just Google for lots of them. There's little point in asking most people who don't follow such diets for advice on them, as they're not as educated on them as those who've actually walked the walk and seen the proof for themselves, in their own, healthier 'pets'.

If you've not had good experiences yourself with human naturopaths, that doesn't necessarily translate into what working with a GOOD holistic vet. can do for you and your animals. For myself, I've seen good homeopathic &/or naturopathic docs (for humans), and very bad ones, too. This is no dif. than in ANY sector, where you have to do your research to find good professionals, or use word of mouth for recommendations. (I've given my own over and over again, ad nauseum) This is why I not only chose Dr. Hamilton for our primary (distance, homeo.) vet (you can't get much better than one of the TOP ones in the world!); note: his fees were less than our local, $$$ vet's), as well as our local one for certain matters, but also why I've posted so many topics here to finding other GOOD holistic/homeo. vets....and why I KEEP repeating that a homeo. vet need not be living in your location to do great work and help with all aspects of health concerns. You might even try Dr. Gardner in Washington State, as a former member here has been having good success with her, too, and for LD calls (if and when needed; she'll also do some consults via email), she's not even that far from BC, whereas I was calling all the way to New Mexico. Most of Dr. H.'s clients only called him every few months, not needing anything more frequent with his expert trtmnt.....mind you, many clients were already following better, smarter, natural protocols already, so didn't have as many problems anymore (he stresses best diets, too, of course). Whereas I CHOSE, myself, to check in more often, but he didn't ever suggest I needed to, except sometimes during a few acute episodes. I was just erring on the side of the preferred method for ME and MY peace of mind. His service, btw, as you'll find with most really good homeo. vets, was superlative, even if he was away on conference, or sometimes even on his own holidays! What more could you ask for?

FABULOUS NEWS!!! I'm going to share this here and on Rohan's page. His tests came back COMPLETELY NORMAL!!! His kidney functions are excellent. As the vet said, "I wish my own health tests came back this clean." I had the full blood panel: CBC, white count, thyroid, kidney function, etc. etc. and everything is completely spot on for a healthy cat. Oh hooray! Ever since Roh nearly died last summer, I've been afraid for him. NOW I CAN LET THAT GO. Oh, this makes me weep with relief. Jan, may Zeus' follow-up tests be the same.... Kimberhappymama

Hi F's Mom

Thanks for all the resources. I have to admit I am still pretty undecided and pretty confused. I really can't afford some of the costs of places like Tree of Life after already paying a thousand dollar emergency bill, and without knowing for sure my living situation since I am waiting to resolve our separation agreement.

I spoke to the vet tech at my vet clinic - she is a friend of mine - and she really insisted that Zeus stay on this diet which is designed to dissolve crystals, until he is out of the danger zone, and has testing to see where he's at. I do feel commercial diets are not best longterm and I don't know about the testing etc, but I trust that there are concerns there. I am so pressured and stressed with many life issues going on that I just want Zeus to stay alive, even if the diet is not best, not tasty, or has other problems. I just need Zeus to stay alive right now so I will keep him on this since I don't have the time or the financial resources to do otherwise.

At least he seems to be eating it more happily now and I wonder if his appetite has also been off since he is normally not a fussy eater.

I do appreciate the info, the links etc. and I have told the vet tech that once we are out of this danger zone and know he doesn't have long term damage, then I want to look more closely at holistic diets.

Happily Zeus is acting pretty much like his normal self and I'm just so glad he is alive right now.

I am blessed in that way, and regardless of diet, please continue to send him healing thoughts.

I am hoping all will be well.

Jan.

Yay, yay, yay Kim!! What a relief after such a scary episode. That is so good to hear. It will be a couple of weeks until I can do the same test, so wish me luck!!!

And again, I am so happy that your Rohan is doing so well.

No doubt it is all the love and healing you give him because of your special connection with him.

Jan.

Hey Jan,

Hope Zeus is doing well! I would just be very wary of presciption diets. I am assuming you are referring to Hills? Personally, I wouldn't feed my cat anything made by Hill's or Science Diet. They are one of the worst foods out there, content wise. They usuallly have a lot of corn, by-products, and high carbs. I think they also use those toxic preservatives BHA and BHT. I would look at the label. Here's a brief article that talks about Hills (who makes prescription and science diet) http://www.ourdogsonline.com/content/sciencedietscam.html

I am a little worried they are feeding you a low-protein diet, which is totally unappealing to cats. It causes more problems then it helps. And the whole low protein thing was studied on dogs, not cats. It's more important for you cat to get good quality high protein canned or raw diet. If you are worried about kidney problems, your vet can prescribe a phosphate binder to go in the food, and I believe there are even some home recipes to make a phosphate binder.

Plus, when you feed your cat a diet that is supposed to attack one type of crystal, it often causes the other type.

From
http://www.fabcats.org/owners/flutd/info.html

[i]Altering the diet is the easiest way to modify the urine. Previously, much interest has been placed on changing the acidity, magnesium, and calcium content of the urine. However, it is now believed that the single most important factor is the rate of water turnover. The aim is therefore to increase water turnover and dilute any noxious components within the urine. Rather than altering the content of a dry diet, it makes much more sense to simply feed a wet one!

There is an excellent book called "Your cat- Simple new secrets to a longer, stronger life by Elizabeth M. Hodgkins, DVM. It one of the best books I have read about cat care, and the most up to date health information and treatments for cats.

Just some info I thought you might find useful.

Keep us updated on dear Zeus.
~NM

Some really good info. there, NM, for Jan's consideration. Just wanted to correct one thing -- the original low-protein studies were actually done on RATS, who are primarily herbivores and have much different protein needs. An excerpt from Dr. Hamilton's book explains it more fully...

"In rats, extra protein prevents the progression of renal failure. (Michael Lieb & William Monroe, Practical Small Animal Internal Medicine [Philadelphia, W.B. Saunders, 1996], 312) Though this has not been show to occur in dogs or cats, this data is used to support protein restriction in these animals....It is commonly thought that when there is any evidence of kidney disease, the protein level should be reduced. This is not correct for most animals. Protein reduction has little impact upon the progression of kidney disease. In fact, reducing the protein level in the diet may reduce the effectiveness of the kindeys. This is because the amount of blood filtered through the kidneys (the glomerular filtration rate) is tied to protein in the diet, and reducing the protein reduces the filtering thus decreasing the excretion of toxins." And we certainly found this to be born out with Nissa's kidney dysfunction. We only reduced her protein amounts by a mere 20% or less, only in the later stages of her illness and mainly because of old age, rather than from her kidney function, which was maintained very well until shortly before her transition.

Ahhhh..... that is very good information, also! The one I was referring to was one I came across in the book (Your cat- Simple new secrets to a stronger, longer life- By Elizabeth Hodgkins) was in the section about CRD (chronic renal disease). It talked about in the 1940's how Dr. Mark Morris Sr., ran some tests on dogs with CRD and lowered their protein intake. They added more grain to the dog's diet and less protein, and then, since it seemed somewhat successful at that time, started modeling the cat's diet after those studies. This has a horrible effect on the health of the cat, because of it's carnivore nature, and the cats rapidly declined. She said the vets then chalked it up to CRD just being a fatal condition, and that's what caused the decline. Later on it was discovered it was the phosphorus was what needed to be restricted, not the protein.

She writes, "No one thought to question whether dietary protein-restriction in an animal adapted to high protein intake had a negative effect on the outcome for the cat with CRD. The truth is, it is possible to manage chronic renal insufficienty in the cat far more succesfully than we have in the past under the old belief systems. Ironically, the centerpiece of this improved management regime for cats with CRD is to avoid protein restriction." She them goes on to talk about phosphorus and phosphate binders.

She also goes on to write, "It has become very apparent to me that a significant part of the deterioration of our CRD patients in years past was due to the protein starvation that was imposed upon them by those of us who followed the dogma of the day." She is referring to her vet peers in this sentence.

Another interesting thing she writes, "We desperately need better science, conducted outside the influence of the pet food industry, in investigations that are broad enough in scope and design as to be genuinely instructive about how to use nutrition, to manage feline disease such as CRD as effectively as possible."

Good info & interesting discussion going on here...
Hugs
NM

Well, and I got slightly off the subject there with CRD, but it is related, as it relates to the kidneys.

But back to UTD-

She also says the problem is not, and has never been, the level of magnesium in the diet of UTI cats. The problem is the extremely low-moisture, alkaline-urine-producing, high-processed-carbohydrate formulas of dry cat foods.

She says that every week she sees new patients that been on "prescription diets" for this problem, without success. And she says that even worse, the prescription diets caused them to develop a different type of crystal, because their urine had become too acid. For these cats, she says the "cure" was as devastating as the original disease.

She also talks about the scientists and how they failed to consider the natural prey of cats contains significant magnesium, but is composed of entirely different types of ingredients. But the problem here really is dry food. Dry food with high cereal and low moisture, cause UTI. And she says that cats eating meat-based wet foods simply do not develop UTI.

I hope that helps~
NM

jan! oh my gosh! i am reading as fast as i can. could you please tell me how zeus is doing now? i'm gonna keep reading ...

i hope and pray that zeus is better and i'll read all posts on this thread now.

many biggggg comforting hugs!!!

always,
dottie xoxoxox

Hi Nemo's Mom

I haven't checked on all your links yet, but he's not on Hill's. It's Medi Cal Dissolution Formula, both canned and in a package. The first ingredients are meats but I will check the label more closely.

I wish Zeus was the only issue I had right now so I could look into everything more closely.

The vet insists this is the right diet for him right now, but I have no doubt there is something better than canned or packaged. I need to still work closely with my vet since Zeus is still in the danger zone.

On the up side of things, he is purring and happy and looks like his total normal self right now. And no worries about meat content because he got outside the other day and caught something. I don't know what but it was fleshy because he puked it up later. Charming. But he is peeing normally right now and acting like his happy self, so hopefully he is okay and doesn't have long term damage. Crossing my fingers!

I'm still interested in holistic solutions but I wish I had help from a local vet for this too. At this very point in time I'm just not able to do a lot of reading and research, but I will check into all that you post here.

take care and thanks so much everyone for the info.

Jan.

Hi Dottie

He "looks" his normal self, but the disturbing thing was he "looked" his normal self the day before I found out he had a urinary blockage so bad it almost killed him.

This after the water filter burst, and I just had to give up Ellie weeks earlier. Not to mention passive aggressive (well not even passive) stuff that x-h is pulling right now.

I am really so tired. I wish some nice things would start happening to me.

Jan.

{{{{{Jan}}}}} All that is gosh awful! I'm so sorry you're going through so much and sure do wish I could wave a magic wand and make all the bad things in your life disappear. There is one thing I can do for right now then off to bed for me cuz it's after 2 AM where I am. Here are three videos so you can sit back and relax for at least 12 to 15 minutes. I hope and pray this gives you a bit of a break and perhaps a little smile or two ...

Let me explain a few thing before you click and watch. OK?

The word "nom" (or "Nom" or "NOM") means that the animal is enjoying what it's eating or it can also mean the food itself.

You'll see words like "Srsly" and "Orly?" and "Brglr." I'm sure you'd get it - "Seriously" and "Oh, really?" and "Burglar." "Mahm" is "Mom." Oh, "TMI" is "too much information." Stuff like that. So make sure to use your pause button because some of them go by kind of fast.

Finally, you'll want to watch to the very end of each video cuz it ain't over when you think it is. Here goes ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsWcU6ZQBgU
Hope you caught what came after the credits on the one above ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X67rniPLkM
Psssttt ... Don't miss the "LOL Burds" ("birds") in the last two seconds of the one above ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-lC39S8vKE

Sweet Jan, I hope you enjoyed and it took your mind off your troubles at least for a short time. Please know you remain in my thoughts and prayers!

Big Comforting Hugs!!!

Always,
Dottie xoxoxox

Oh Jan,

I am sorry things are so rough right now. I am sure that has to be so frustrating with the passive-aggressive stuff your ex is pulling. Are things going a bit better now?

~NM