I guess most of you have not heard from me before, and the rest of you haven't seen any posts from me in a long while.
I haven't felt like sharing any thoughts or pain lately.

On May 21, 2008- I lost my mouse Gordon. The only comfort was that he was not just my furkid, but he was a huge part of the nature program that I worked on last summer, and for over 9 weeks last summer, he touched hundreds of children. He was their favorite animal in the room. ( We also had a snake, a small lizard, 2 toads, 2 crayfish, a red-eared slider turtle, a rabbit, and a few local fish). All were used for educational and compassionate teachings, and all were released back into the wild with the exception of the lizard and rabbit who were adopted, and the turtle and Gordon. I know Gordon served a great purpose, and he also visited a local elementary science club that I did some volunteer presentations for in the fall of '07. The children loved him as much as I did. Mice can have short life spans, but he accomplished a lot in his.

I lost my beloved 15 1/2 year old cat, Rufus on March 1, 2008, and that has been very painful. I raised him form a kitten, and he slept with me all of the time, even during short "cat" naps. I still find it hard to wake up and not have him here.

Now a quick bit of background, I have lost 23 furry children, 8 close humans, and a few acquaintances- all since May 2004.
I am not sure how I still get up everyday, but I keep on trying.

I am so sorry for those of you with recent and painful loss(es) to handle, I do know how hard it is. I honestly cannot say that it gets easier, but the memories do get better.

Thank you to any and all who read this topic.

Peace, Love, and Prayers,
Michelle

This is my Rufus...

I am sorry you lost Gordon and Rufus. You show you have definitely had experience going through all this time and again, as most of us have.

I especially understand Rufus...after 15 1/2 years....I lost my Little Guy after 16 1/2 years..the longest I was allowed by fate to keep one of these precious ones. I also raised him from a kitten..along with his twin brother, Keeper and his sister Little Girl...all gone now.

Such a sweet picture of Rufus..I am glad you posted it.

You know we here feel and understand your pain because it is the same as ours. True, as you have said..the memories do get better.

We are here listening anytime you want to talk...tell us some of the good memories of your furbabies, post more pictures...whatever helps you to feel somewhat better.

I wish you peace and healing. You have been through a lot since 2004 but I am glad you keep trying because these special ones do need us and we know.....we need them too.

Hugs

Good Evening Michelle!
Yes there's a lot of pain, sorrow, grieving and at the same time compassionate talk here. As LoveThem said keep posting any time you want to talk or just listen. I think there's some truth to 'misery loves company'!


I can relate to that somewhat. My entire immediate blood family is gone now, i'm what you might say the 'Last of the Mohicans'. And i lost my best friend Duncan a few weeks ago.
Having said that, i still very much look forward to the sun rising every morning and dealing with life's trials and tribulations. You might say i'm 'born again' every morning i wake up. To me life is a precious gift, the past, the here, the now and the future should all be celebrated as such.
The trajedies, the loss of our humans and furry pets, etc. is all but a part of life and in the Grand Scheme of things we'll be ultimately judged on how we cope with and handle these events.

Our pets as i see it are not here to provide life long grief or to negatively alter our life after they pass. They are here as a temporary gift to provide us positive 'stepping stones' to build our own character necessary for life's fullfillment. IMO, to prolongingly grieve over a death whether human or fur is counter productive to our own well being as hard as that might sometimes be to accept. But eventually, accept we must and then move on!

Take care Michelle,
-Ken

i'm sorry you've been through so much loss. i had a mouse which was my 1st mouse that only lived one week in child hood(ralph) and we were so close. i was so sad when he passed. i had two great rats pass this year(tony and peanut). also my 1 year old kitty (acorn) passed last month. it doesnt matter how long the special ones spend in our lives. they still leave a huge impact. ive lost countless beloved pets but never any people close to me. i cant imagine what you are going through. you are an inspiration for going on with your life despite all the hardship.

with love corina and her angels

Hi Michelle, I am sorry for the loss of your cat and mouse. Your Rufus had a long happy life, and your litte mouse offered much needed knowledge in this world. How proud you should feel for that. Funny, I had field mouse living in my garage for months. Tried as might to capture it the humane way, but he eluded every trap I set. At one point he crawled in my car, chewed a wire that cost 125.00 to fix and still fed him. I honesty think it ate itself to death. Furry, big or small, I love them all. Come back from time to time let us know how your doing. Love your Avatar, looks like my little Arthur I lost on Jun8th. Take Care.. Ann

I know i'm probably gonna upset some here but i'm sorry..... I consider 'wild' mice pests, plain and simple. In the barn, they get into my tractors, my pickup, power tools and work bench drawers and make a mess among the hand tools with their droppings and nests. I trap em with good ol fashioned spring traps and once in a while one of my dogs will also get one. They also carry and spread diseases. Heavily infested mouse dropping areas can be real hazardous to breath in.
A couple years ago, Dolly cornered a mouse in her kennel and from what i could see, she sort of made that mouse her own pet. She'd pick it up, drop and then gently paw it again and again not allowing it to escape. After a while that mouse finally died of a heart attack i think!

Now we've got these big ol bull snakes here in abundance. Some grow to four feet or more and are very aggressive if cornered. They'll sit up like a cobra and lunge towards you. I won't knowingly kill not one of them as they are one of nature's best mouse traps.

Same goes for the big rat moles. My county including my property is infested with them. They make gigantic mounds a foot high and are as large as a small cat. The only way i can get them is to undig a freshly dug tunnel, wait for em to stick their head out and blast em with my double barrel 12 ga. Yee Haaa!

Sorry if any of this upset anyone here but this is life in the country.
-Ken

I can relate to your field mouse story.
I had rescued a 5 day old field mouse on September 5, 2001. I had to feed him a supplement every 2-4 hours for 3 1/2 weeks, and then he survived and lived a king's life for 3 years and 3 months, losing Chance was devastating!

I also rescued another deer mouse orphan, Midget, in July of 2005, and she is still with me. About 8 months later, I rescued another orphan, Stuart, and he is still with us.

Kudos for helping your visitor survive, all animals are important. I have just adored my field mice, but I would not have kept them in captivity except that they were orphans and could not survive without their Mothers' teachings.

Here is a picture of Chance, the first orphan, celebrating his first Christmas.

Yes, this upsets me a great deal!!!! I also live in the country.
There are alternatives to trapping, and one is a granulated pheromone that smells of fox, and is 100% safe for humans and pets. Mice smell it, sense a predator, and move on. It can be sprinkled around the perimeter of your home, or placed on a plate in a large area, such as a garage, barn, basement, attic, etc.
If you took the time to do this, you wouldn't have to kill anyone!
By the way, this is not the right place for you to come and tell grieving souls about your (or your dog's) massacres.
As you can tell, I have compassion for these "pests" as you call them, and when I lost Chance, it was one of the hardest experiences of my life. If you look at some of my old posts, you can tell how grief stricken I was to lose him.

http://lightning-strike.com/forum/index.ph...ic=1825&hl=

This was an old post of mine about all I was going through then, as you can see, Chance was a beauty, and all animals deserve to live a life. Humans are the worst predators of all!

You knew your post would upset someone, so I am telling you that it was me for sure. Happy?

Michelle

Wow. I will never offer Duncan my support or compassion. I don't care if you have a dog, cat or a mouse for a pet: I don't care if you live on the farm on a highrise in New York City, the whole point is he completely disrespected the feelings of Mos Mommy. the whole and entire reason we come to this site is for support with our grief feelings, to share and empathize with each other. To so lightly talk about "blowing their heads off" to people who are paralyzed by losing an animal, I find that completely unacceptable. I think Duncan should find another site where he can enjoy talking about killing.

Jon, i agree with that whole-heartedly and a lot else you've mentioned.
In my reply note i specifically went out of my way and even quoted the word 'wild' mice. No doubt a wild mouse or other creature could become a pet of some kind and you are correct in that would put it in an etirely different category ..... definitely not the pest category.

mosmomy,
i'm sorry you were offended by my post but this is not a perfect world we live in...this is just the way it is.
I realize you have sincere compassion for mice as pets and thats your choice which i respect.

However, one man's pet is another man's pest or food.
If you had lets say a goat or a chicken as a pet, how would you feel about those species being slaughtered by the thousands for human consumption?

As a dog lover myself:
They eat dog and cat meat in some countries...do i like that concept?...absolutely not!
Animal shelters legally kill thousands of stray dogs and cats....do i like that concept?...absolutely not!
Geuss what i'm trying to say is that we have to keep things in relative perspective.

To humanely trap or use repellants for hundreds of mice out in the country is just not practical IMO. I initially did try using those electronic mice repellers in the barn and they just don't work there. However, i do use one in my garage and it does seem to work there as i've got unsprung traps sitting there for months now.

-Ken

And I agree with you valgib, I am in state of shock, I can not believe he is talking about killing Baby Pets here, I will not care about "Duncan" anymore, ever, he dosen't belong here and I am very sorry for "his" Pets also, what a shame and very sorry about it.

Hey Havana, adios amigo!! Gess i'm out of here!!
-Ken

I learned young that wonderful things come in small packages.

My Dad used to make things in his garage. One of the most beautiful things he made was a conastoga wagon. He carved each spoke with expertise and soaked his wood and was patient while it dried to just the right shape. It took well over a year for him to finish this wagon. You could say my Dad's garage was his getaway place from the havoc in the house since he had 5 children creating hub bub all the time. There was no peace and quiet for him except there.

While he worked on this particular project a mouse had become his friend. That mouse sat with him everytime my Dad went out and worked on his wagon. He named him Peanut. My Dad was truly an animal lover no matter what the species and he taught me to look inside people....not the outside......and felt the same way about animals. Inside every package is a special kind of living soul for somebody.

When Peanut passed away on my Dad's workbench my Dad cried. I cried too because my Dad cried and I was saddened for him. This little Peanut of his kept him company out there in peace and solace for a long time. No other mouse came to sit with him ever again even though we all knew there were lots of them around.

All creatures great and small........God hath made them all. When one of His creatures brings such joy and happiness to another it is a true blessing and gift; no matter what kind of package it comes in. Gordon obviously was a special gift to you and the children who's lives he touched in such a wonderful way.

Peace and God's blessings to you,
Beth

I, first, had to respond to this adorable story. Animals can be so amazing, and they seem to know when we need them. Chance, for example, saved my life. The day I got him to take care of was BAD day, and I didn't think I had the strength to keep living my life, then he came in and gave me a "small" reason to stay alive- to save his life. When he was surviving on his own, I felt it was the miracle I had prayed for.
I also finished rearing a baby red squirrel in 2000, and I called him, Peanut. As much as I would have loved to keep him, I felt it would have been wrong. He was almost ready to leave his Mom anyway, so I finished showing him how to open hard foods, and fed him softer foods until he could crack his own shells. I kept him in a cage that hung from the ceiling, to get him used to heights, and when he was released, that cage was covered and hung in a tree. For a week, he came and went from that cage, and I provided food and water, after that- he moved on. He did visit for the first few years, so he must have been living on the property. It was pretty cool.
In my yard, and my piece of the world, no animal is unwelcome or considered a pest, and I have had the raccoons raid my bird feeders, I just had to keep trying to out smart them. The deer have done it, and the squirrels and chipmunks, but nature has it's own circle. I do not use pesticides or herbicides, as all these critters serve a purpose in nature, and nature is harsh enough. I don't like to watch it, but I know it happens.
They all have a part in their own play.

To Jon730 and LoveThem, and anyone else who may think that Duncan was in a state of grief and didn't think that about the way his comment might have sounded, I have to disagree. The above quote from his post proves that he knew what he was about to type might be offensive. When you start off a reply like that, maybe you should think before you keep typing.
This was my topic to begin with, and I posted for compassion and grief, not just for me, but for all who read it. For the record, I don't think I was too harsh with Duncan, and I did not ask him to leave, I just told him my reaction, and again referring to the above quote from him, he knew there would be a reaction. That is what I gave him, and I did not disrespect his loss or his dog when I replied.

So to this, I have to say that the words about 'status' or 'promotion' are just words that humans use to rationalize their love of some animals, and not others.

As for the talk of slaughtering, shelter kills, or cultural differences about what animals are consumed, I am also not happy about any of it. What I do not do, is come in here to post after doing that kind of job at the SPCA, or having someone who did slaughter and or eat one (or more) of the animals that we have all loved and lost, come in here to offer sympathy, and then discuss their meal or day's work in that post.
Am I wrong? I don't think so.

This world is a terrible place with terrible things happening, but there is a time and place for discussions of all things, you just have to be sure to use the right place at the right time.

Now, to all of you that have actually stuck to empathizing with my original topic, here is a picture of my sweet Gordon.

yes, lovely sweet Gordon
what a wonderful pic, what a wonderful mouse
much love
Eva with her cat Jimmy..............

while this topic seems to have created a bit of animosity, typically i am not one to censor posts that offer unpopular opinions or beliefs.

so understand that i have removed certain posts within this topic not because i agree or disagree with the points made, but because the posts in question took the thread off-topic and outside the realm of its intended purpose. these posts are not deleted if the topic starter wishes for them to return as they were. please message me if this is the case.

its a tough path to tread here, folks. i try my best not to make value judgements. though Ken/Duncan may have been callous in stating his beliefs using the words he chose, they were still his beliefs. nobody can really say whether another person's beliefs are right or wrong...there just needs to be the right time and place to discuss them openly and without retribution. this thread was not the place since it contradicted the original poster's reason to post.

trying to keep the peace, as always....

Well, that is certainly a sweet picture of Gordon and again, as I said in my first post here, I am very sorry for your recent losses.

I also have to say I love that picture of Chance and his first Christmas. That should be the picture for a December Calendar. I know it would make me smile to see it in the Christmas month.

I would caption it....'Not a creature was stirring...not even a......."

It is obvious Chance was definitely waiting for Santa......Wonder what he got for his first Christmas? A favorite Cheese? or ?

Your furbabies were lucky to know you and I know you felt lucky knowing and having all of them over the years...as I do for all the ones I also have had. I can't imagine my life without one.

Take Care...

Oh, my goodness, Michelle! I'm coming in very late in your thread (overloaded with my own things in the last few months, so haven't been here much, unfortunately), but had been deliberately, I'm sure, 'directed' to it late last night......by my girl, Nissa (see next paragraph). So to begin....

While of course it's good to connect with you once again here, naturally I'm SO very sorry about the WHY of it. ***sigh*** Learning of yet more (!!) losses you've had in the last while is so darn heartbreaking! (also couldn't help but notice the number of your losses....23....one of my Nissa's particular "numbers") Once again and as always, your inner strength impresses the heck outta me...yes, even if you don't FEEL strong. How you do manage to keep going is still beyond me, as I've yet to meet anyone else who has had to process so terribly MANY losses in only 4 years. Back to those in a sec....

But having your thread interrupted in the way it was, on top of your grief......let's just say I'm DOUBLY sorry for you after having to suffer through that, too. You should not have had to explain or expound upon your thoroughly compassionate perspective towards all creatures, especially in a place like this. And I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of this whole kerfuffle.....and obviously don't agree with Ken's stance on "wild" versus "pets" treatment in any case. Those are terms we CHOOSE, only to objectify and justify. They are only constructs in our minds and nothing more.

I know you want to redirect your thread back to its original intent, but since you've been subjected to this other angst, I also wanted to lend you support in that area, too, so I will mention just a few points:

I, too, have had to 'de-mousie' our garage once, using humane traps and relocation to an area farther away. It took some patience, but I never would have resorted to kill traps.....or guns, if they'd been some larger type of creature. As you've implied, using our creativity and imagination to solve such dilemmas in a more humane manner is what I believe to be truly "superior" thinking and moral judgment. All that other type of justification reminds me of a particular quote: "Whenever people say 'We mustn't be sentimental,' you can take it they are about to do something cruel. And if they add 'We must be realistic,' they mean they are going to make money out of it." ~ Brigid Brophy. To claim a need for killing under the guise of "this is just the way it is" is just another excuse to never attempt to evolve past that solely-human butt-ended thinking. It also used to be "just the way it (was)" to own slaves, not allow women to vote, beat the wife and kids, etc. The human race is abominably slow to 'update' its thinking, but change it needs to if we're ALL to survive, as the Whole Being that We are. This is also why I've always said that it's often wise to use some discrimination in who you would support and who you'd rather not...here, there and everywhere. As my H and I have come to always say when things like this arise...."Well, at least we KNOW now....." (and at some later, less grief-stricken time, you might wish to check out this animal quotations webpage, which lends further support to your perspectives - Quote Garden.)

Now, back to lending support and empathy for your grief, over both your dear Gordon and Rufus!

First off, oh my...both Gordon and Rufus were simply BEAUTIFUL, both in their physical forms and in their souls! What a wonderful legacy they've both left, and in the case of Gordon, not just for you and your family, but to the world-at-large. Well, they ALL do this, indirectly, of course, but I'm talking about Gordon's classroom teachings. I'm also sure he's gone on to even bigger soul projects to help his/our fellow animal nations. You must be very, very proud of him and all he accomplished in his too-short time here. I know I would be. You have my utter respect, empathy and sympathy for his passing.....like my Nissa-girl, such a BIG soul in such a tiny, compact package......he's certainly gone far beyond his physical form and taught so many so much that NEEDS teaching.

I was also so distressed for and with you to hear about your dear Rufus' passing this last March, and can fully understand how empty it feels to not have your nap and beddie-bye boy there with you now....when you need that kind of support and love the very most! I STILL can't sleep w/o my cat stuffie, and that, of course, isn't anywhere adequate enough to begin with. I just ask my girl to actually 'get inside' that stuffie in order to feel my kisses, cuddles and love emanating through it, to HER actual essence...I suspect it works, and it certainly helps ME out some.

It's just never enough time, is it?, to be with our beloved ones here on this plane. I, too, have had many losses and traumas (including but not limited to death, but all valid and giving rise to grief) since mainly that same year ('04). It's just so, so hard to cope with too many all at once, so to speak. I consider my own bad and hard enough to contend with, and so just as I'd said, to have 23 and still even be STANDING!......you must be ever so exhausted and beaten up/down by that much sorrow. My heart just bleeds for you.

You're a priceless and dear soul, Michelle, and so it's no small wonder at all to me why so many beings have deliberately put themselves right in your path, helping you to expand and spread the word on WHY they are just as priceless and inherently valuable in their own right. (to me, a total "DUH!", but to others???.....) Your tears over them (all) are a testament to what Universal Love includes, and I salute you for it, despite the terrible pain (both entirely personal and more earthly) I know you must live with daily. Know that Gordon and Rufus, and all your other loves both transitioned and not, are wholly grateful for having you in their lives (and soul groups), too. And know they still are, just more invisibly. What would any of you have done without the others? But, as a fellow griever, I'm just so awfully sorry anyway....

Holding you in sympathetic thoughts and wishing you both the gift of peace and a well-needed break in so much loss ,

Nissa and Sabin's Mom

P.S. I'll be away again soon for awhile (a mini-vacation), but will try to catch up to your thread as I can, possibly even before we leave.
P.P.S. I've just read the newer post by Admin. (hidden while I was typing), but will leave my own post as it stands and let you, Michelle, and Marc decide what to do with it.

Hi,
Sorry I haven't been here to reply for a few days. Thank you for your compliments about my Gordon, Chance, and Rufus.

Chance was a VERY special creature. That first Christmas eve, he didn't get up at night to run like he usually would, I guess he knew to stay asleep for Santa to come.
He got his snowman stuffed critter, which he eventually tore all of the stuffing out, and slept in it. Very cute! He got a mini stocking filled with a cheese/seed cake, and after he got it out of that stocking, he got to keep the stocking to use as bedding for his large "nest". He also got wrapping paper filled with mixed nuts, even the expensive kind, and I put that gift (paper and all) in his cage for him to open. I didn't use tape or ribbon, so he just had to chew through some paper to get his gift. He had a lovely Christmas Day that year, and the years that followed while he was with us.

Although I am relieved to have this thread back to it's original purpose, it may behoove me to have that stuff added back in. The only reason is so people who read it (now or in the future) could see and understand what happened, what reactions it caused, and maybe learn when and where to post certain things. Not sure though.

To Sabin and Nissa's Mom, it is great to hear from you again, all be it under these cir%%stances. I thank you so much for your support and encouragement.
It has been a tough 4 years, and I, too, have suffered losses other than those in death. I do not know how I get up every day, and at times, I think I've gone numb.
I have other babies to be here for, and I am sure my life will have more babies coming my way until it is my time to leave this Earth.

I will put up a couple pics of my adorable 2 cats that are here with me. I always have stated that 2 are never enough, but when the time is right, that number will increase.

I have to keep going for these guys, as they have rescued me from some of my grief.
Peace, Love, and Prayers to you all,
Michelle

My brown Wilson, and my Agouti, Ewan (You-in).

Oh, THERE they are!!! It's been too long since I've seen them! How ARE those dear boys? Those cushy-comfy pics make me want to just jump right in there with them and SNOOOOOZE the whole day away! And what chocolatey-delicious-looking pawpads Wilson has! YUM! Ripe for kissing!

Yes, I'd forgotten to talk about Chance,, too. What a glorious Christmas that must have been for him, thanks to his Santa-Mom! Just looking at his enclosure makes me smile....all the rodentia accoutrements and enrichments he had in his living space! You made his earthly life a big slice of Heaven, Michelle. Don't ever forget that.

QUOTE

I do not know how I get up every day, and at times, I think I've gone numb.

Yes, I'm sure you have (!!!), just as I and probably many others have. I know I've been in and out of numbness (some of it so bad, it sometimes felt worse than the raw grief!) many times in the last 4 years, and still to this day. All part of that roller-coaster ride we call "grief". Those numb-er days were often the only ones where I could post something of an educational nature here, yet couldn't even speak of the underlying pain that I might otherwise have been writing about. But you have even more NEED of such respite and natural defensive measures than most, too. Your struggles are probably rather akin to how no-kill shelter/animal sanctuary owners' are, except likely even worse, as almost all of these babies are yours, NEVER to be adopted out, and so the emotional attachments are much closer than the other peoples' would normally be. I just can't imagine......

However, as you said,

QUOTE

I have other babies to be here for...

so you MUST, of needs, keep getting up each day. I know how utterly exhausted I was, with (only) my Nissakins to care-give for, as her needs became more and more pronounced in her last year or so, and you have so many MORE to tend to with love. And yet of course we keep going for their sakes, if not our own.

I also imagine you barely ever even have any time for SELF-care, and yet that is one of the key-est components to getting through such hardship and is usually one of the very first things certified grief counselors remind us is a necessity, not a luxury. So even if it's just 10-15 mins./day that you can set aside for something that gives you peace and pleasure....even IF that something is spending time quietly loving, stroking, kissing one or more of your babies......that will help you recharge if done consistently. I'm sure you do this anyway, so it's easy to incorporate. But also doing something else that involves just you might be very beneficial, like reading something enjoyable, taking a walk or sitting and musing in nature, getting a massage, whatever, and even if it's not daily, but weekly. As they rightly say, you can't keep nurturing others if you don't include yourself in the equation, too. This was one of the key pieces of advice Nissa herself had for me after she transitioned - I'm to learn to love myself as well and as much as I loved her. Still harder for me than giving of myself to her, mind you, but I've given it a go regardless and it does help some. Like anything else, it's a gradual process.

As for bringing back the missing posts or not, I can imagine it's quite a tough call for you. It may have felt very disrespectful of your loss seeing them in there, and yet, as you said, it was educational, too. Hmmm....it just struck me.....rather a reflection on Gordon's own classroom lessons, in a way, isn't it? (guess that's the proverbial "silver lining" way to view that upset) However, even having an informal 'educator' bent myself, if it were my own thread, I'm not entirely sure what I'd do, either. But as with anything else in grief, whatever brings YOU, personally, the 'better' feelings, is what you should likely go with. It's definitely your call, as it ought to be.

QUOTE

I have to keep going for these guys, as they have rescued me from some of my grief.

Yes, that IS what they (collectively) all do, isn't it? Love us, love us, love us, especially when we need it the most. And.....teach us how to love ourselves better! So take a lesson from all your kidlets, past, present and future.......

at the original poster's request, this thread has been restored to its original state (temporarily hidden posts have been made visible again)

I think if you look, you may see me in the back of one of those pictures, and I have my blanket over my head, but I was there, cuddling with them.
Those chocolate paws on my Wilson are so kissable, and I do it many times a day. He's a real beauty!
We all love the afghan that my Mother-in-Law made for me, but I share it (and have shared it) with all of my loves. My Ewan just loves to put his long "fingers" into it and start "marching" before he lays down, he's a very sweet boy.

There should be a shot of my Rufus laying with Wilson (and possibly Huey, our shelter kitty that passed on last February from genetic liver failure). Rufus was always sweet to an new souls that came into the house.