removed

John, I don't think people use they are in better hands or place as a catch phase. Well, maybe some do but not all. I was raised catholic, but now I'm non practicing. People are taught to believe that there is a better life (heaven) ahead after death. They offer those phases out of kindness because they truly believe that it will give the other person some peace. It's so hard to except that loved ones are gone. Having that faith for some people is all they have, it's all they have to cope with their losses. It's easier to believe in something then nothing. Do you know what I mean? Some people believe that life is a stepping stone to a greater place, that our life here is a learning experience and that your spirit can't move on until you learn the values of love,and kindness; If you don't learn those values then your spirit will be reincarnated until you do. Maybe people on this site know of your kindness and love that you gave and recieved from your furbabies. Your furbabies represented the puriest form of love so they were able to move on to God. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that to them those words are not empty.I do understand your anger .I hate the fact also that our babies are gone. I also know how much your babies loved you, because of the love that they recieved from you. They had the best life possible and that was because of you. All I know is that our babies are no longer in agony and pain. Their suffering is gone.That is the only solice I have and what keeps me from cracking up. I would trade anything to have my furbaby back and I'm possitive you would too but, not the way they were at the end. Thou we are in agony they are not and that is all that matters. Take care of yourself John, I'm sorry your feeling so hurt and I'm sorry that you are so upset. You are a kind, good person. A wise man once said to me stop beating yourself up. LOL sound familiar.

John

I know JUST how you feel.

"He's in a better place". I heard that so often, it still makes me mad. What place could be better than here at home with his daddy? I'm sorry, there is no better place.

I didn't hear the better hands one, that would have made me violent I think. Ones I did hear:

"He's home now". No, not even, here is home and no where else.
"He's at the bridge". Nice but that isn't where I want him, I just want him here.
"He's a kitten again". Well my baby was only 10 and yours were younger, just 4 and 8. That just plain isn't much help.

I know very well that it was all well intended, and I took it as such. I was grateful for any compassion I recieved. I even felt bad that I got upset at some of it. I just want you to know you are not the only one who ever felt this way.

Love

I have to agree with your feelings on this one John. To me, the "better place" for my Alley is with ME! Not some distant reality that I'm not even sure exists. I don't think our babies are suffering somewhere, don't get me wrong. I'm sure they are fine wherever they are, but I don't think they are in a "better" place. i can't imagine them being anywhere that they would receive more love than they had with us.

I see it more as if they are just somewhere waiting. Waiting for us to join them, so we can both be complete again, and together. Then it would be a better place.

I know people are only trying to help when they say things like that, but sometimes I'd rather they just didn't say anything.

I know I am guilty of offering hope of a "better place". I only say this because from the bottom of my heart I truly believe it and it gives me peace... but if I have made anyone feel worse then they already felt than I apologize.

Geez, guys....people are trying to help you! It's one thing when people just don't get it and say things like, "It's just a dog!" (cat/ferret/horse/whatever) But when you come here and post your feelings and people respond with what they think are words of comfort - accept them for what they are and for how you know they were intended. Same thing with people on the "outside." People will stop trying to understand or comfort you at all if you find fault with everything they say. As far as "being in a better place," come on - we all think a better place for our pets is with us forever, but is that realistic. Do you honestly think that people mean that it wasn't a good place to be with you? Expressions of comfort shouldn't be twisted or taken so literally.

I really appreciated the words of comfort I received from everyone here. Now should I go back and &%^yze everyone's comments to see if they offended me in any way? Of course not!

I am afraid you have once again misconstrued my post. I am very grateful for the help I have recieved here. Make no mistake about that. This was not about the kindness folks have shown me here. This was about how some things that I hear, and see invoke emotions, like guilt, that I felt I could talk about. I was obviously mistaken.

john, i understand what you are saying and i think i have actually said those pharses myself..with the understanding that i didnt know what else to say..loss for words i guess...
and now i have been thinking.....your right what better place is there than with us? i dont know if there is a better place..i havent gotten there yet to see for myself.. but maybe heaven is great i dunno... but i hope my babies are well taken care of and loved until i get there....
much love
michelle

I guess my training as a nurse has taught me that there are some things you just don't say simply because they do sound like cliches and can be misconstrued. I don't know if through the years I have said them to individuals that I know well, if I have it's because I know that those particular people have that belief also, and won't take them as cliche-like or filler-talk. Still, I do try to be sensitive and make the point that I am aware that some people don't share my beliefs, but that's okay, we're all different and we all grieve in different ways, but there are commonalities in grief. Guilt, pain, anger, more pain, the unbearable but impossible desire to have the departed pet back again - we all, I think, go through those.

"Better hands" and "Better place" - to some people those are cliches and maybe insults, but to other people, they can be a source of comfort. Again, I think you'd have to know the person you're saying these words to pretty well before you say them. I've found that some folks of my mom's generation - but by no means all - do find comfort in thinking that their beloved pets are, to put it in religious terms, with God and in Heaven, and that's also a feeling shared by a number of folks of my generation as well. Again, I emphasize that I try to be up-front that that's the angle I'm coming from, even though I'm not an evangelical or born-again Christian, just someone with simple beliefs who feels that I will see my furbabies again one day in - yes, I'll admit it, especially considering this world we find ourselves living in - a better place.

Still, people do have difficulty offering others sympathy regarding pets versus human members of families. I've never really understood that, and was so glad when greeting card companies starting coming out with pet sympathy cards. When in doubt, I always say, send a card if you can't find words, and the people I've sent cards to for the loss of pets have always been extremely touched and moved.

You wrote about an emotional wall that these people who use these words have when they say these things - I think you've hit the nail on the head in a lot of ways. Emotional walls are protective devices, and they're used to keep folks from feeling their own pain, so they lock it up for ever and never let go of it and thus can't really help other with their grief. In a way, that's sort of sad, because it's a pain that festers inside forever, and one day it'll come out, maybe, in a totally unexpected and perhaps inappropriate way. Here on this board we're at least trying, and I know you've helped me in times of my need, and I've had the opportunity to give this subject a lot of thought. I know I'll try to pay more attention to what I say to people, and I appreciate your point of view.

I'm sorry for your loss of Abigail and for the pain and sadness you're going through. And I do thank you for your insight and for opening my eyes. We all need that sometime. Take care - Barb

I dont care what words people on this site said to me.
Just the thought that they took the trouble to reply and offer sympathy to me when they were hurting themselves was good enough for me.
It still hurts so much that I lost two kitties last year but without this site it would have hurt a lot more.
I hope no one is put off posting here thinking they have to choose their words.
Sorry for the rant but its how I feel.

Cleo 1

With respect to the site and to others here I have removed the post. It was not taken in the context with which it was meant but it is too late for that now. I will take my leave of this place for a while in light of this unfortunate event.

God Bless you all
May you all find peace

Dear, sweet, John! I send you a suspended -in -time hug-mayit last into your life. Your thoughts are your own, but we all benefit from reading them and thinking over your ideas. At this site, our favorite subject is musing on how they go, where they go, what we go through and how to adapt without them etc..There is all this dialogue that is exchanged and you expressed how you feel about some of these thoughts. I don't think you wrote anything harsh, you just said what hurts you and it's appropriate. If it were true that (to use an expression I know I have used a fews times here on LS then we should all have lined up at the vets the minute we realized we loved our pets and demanded for our pets to be put 'in a better place', 'in God's arms' or in' a better place of perfect bliss'. We weren't that crazy then and shouldn't be now. I did say once that no one, no one here on earth knows for sure what may or may not come after death. Those who say they are sure can not be. Like many before me, my philosophy is one of hope.
I know that if there is nothing, then when I die I'm not gonna wake up to realize that there was nothing more. But I prefer to think that we have spirits, that there must be a continuation even if we don't have proof of anything. We can only go by our gut feeling. When we are at our lowest, this is when we question everything. When little signs seem to happen, we invest in hope. With hope, I can relate better to my lost love than with nothingness. And this little possibility of there being light at the end of the tunnel is the thread that keeps me still saying to my cat: I love you, I think of you, I trust that the love will go beyond the life I know today. If I croak and never wake up, what did I lose?

One last thing I would like to say in the context of controversial opinions we have heard here through time is that I find people should not be afraid to say what they think and feel and they should also not be afraid of how people react to their opinion. We can not and should not be judges though. We also should keep in mind that people are animals too, and as such deserve our compassion and respect, even if we can not understand their point of view. So John and all please, don't let fear of opinions hold you from sharing your thoughts and don't punish yourselves by staying quiet. We are all emotional here and some thoughts some feelings may have slipped out in a way that we didn't want it to, if so, we can try to soothe things over, but going away is punishment for all of us, not just for those who are in the corner.
My love goes out to all of you who come/came will come here. May life be good for you despite your pain, bless you all.

John B, You have no reason to apoligize! You offered compassion and gave comfort to people .That is all you are guilty of. I for one appreciate your support. Do not second guess yourself in the advice you give. Do not let others dictate what you should or should not write.

John, For my part, I don't see what you wrote as an "unfortunate event" at all. Every so often in the newspaper or a magazine or some publication you run across exactly what you expressed, usually t*itled something like "What not to say to a grieving parent (or child") or whatever. If it provokes thought and insight, then it makes sense to bring it up. Please don't feel you need to leave the board over this, you serve a definite purpose, and I think you bring comfort and understanding to a lot of people. If you can bring comfort to one person who is in those initial heartbreaking hours of grief, isn't it worth it to stay on? Or even those of us who've been here for what seems like forever but occasionally need that pick-up-off-the-floor - that solace can make so much difference. Please reconsider. Do take care - Barb

john dont leave the boards. i for one look forward to what you write . i cherish your insight and you have helped me so much. i love how you think and how you express yourself..(wish i could do that) i always look forward to reading your posts. may you find peace.
much love
michelle

I'm usually a very positive person. My loss made me re-think everything. I felt quite crazy very often. A lot of what I felt I had to process and fit back into my life. This board helped me so much to do that.

I think John was exploring how crazy some things made him feel, not trying to put anyone down or "grouse" about how he was treated. He wasn't finding fault with anyone, except maybe himself.

If you read my post carefully you know I said,


If you have said any of those things you think I don't know you were trying to help? That was part of feeling crazy. Knowing people were trying to help and feeling upset at what was said anyway. Feeling out of control, like I wasn't feeling like I was "supposed" to. When you have a loss you kinda have to throw all that "supposed" to stuff out the window and feel what you feel.

I'm so happy the board was here to help me work out most of those feeling. To find the people who agreed with me. To help me feel sane or at least not quite so crazy.

It wasn't that long ago but no one got upset at me for letting that stuff out then. To disagree is fine but to make someone else feel so bad they leave the boards? That talking about what they are really feeling isn't safe? If this board isn't the safe place to explore your feelings, where is?

I add my plea to others here John, please stay and help us all with your wisdom and kind words. Yes and all your feelings too.

Lori

I'm sorry, I can't keep quiet. I realize that this is a place where we should be able to openly share our feelings, but when doing that causes percieved judgement to be cast on the pure intentions of those offering sympathy then it is just plain wrong.

When I read John's opening paragraph it angered me because I saw my previous replies to posts being referenced in a negative way. My post where John called me to account for defending "closure" was the first instance, but we moved on. Now we have judgement being passed on the phrase I used many times here "they are in a better place". Yes I know that Judgement was probably not the intention...but the shoe fit and it hurt me.

I never judged or called anybody on anything they said here. this is not the place for that kind of thing. I just don't like it when my thoughts and intentions, or anyone elses, are called into question in the guise of someone elses thoughts and muses.

John B

I know things can sometimes be taken the wrong way when emotions are running strong as they do in everyone who visits here, but I know that John was not trying to offend anyone who has offered comfort to him on these boards. He is one of the most caring, understanding people I have met and one who truly does share our grief and can empathize with exactly how we are feeling, because he is feeling it too.

I had assumed when he wrote his original post he was talking about unsympathetic people who just throw cliches at you because they don't care enough to talk to you about your grief in a personal manner. I didn't see it as him attacking someone who said that because it was a deep personal belief of theirs.

It just makes me so sad when things like this happen on here, and I really don't want to see anyone leave, especially not someone like John who has been a tremendous help to me over the past 7 months.

HI All, Hi John, I am getting into this late, I don't even know what was said about
being "in a better place or hands" but I can understand your feelings, it something I have thought about but not really expressed, that is what I like about this place, its thought provoking and comforting alot, and John you have always been a great source of support to others, I hope you don't leave, its hard to connect with just new people when the old friends have gone away, so please..Anyway, just wanted to share my thougthts, alot of times people here express themselves and I have often felt exposed and vulnerable, my words were thrown back a few times but thats okay, because everyone is emotional and that happens, just don't let it get to you, just listen with your heart...bye for now guys, you are all the best, Take it easy... Tory, Hrudey's Momma

since the original topic has been removed, this post has been closed.