If your vet has taken the time to call you personally (twice even), and has (what seems to be) waived the fees, then I wouldn't worry about a card! That is far more than a lot of vets do! I would rather have a personal phone call than a card anyways...it's so much more personal and that may be his style
![quote]While we did get a plant and card from the local clinic we'd been with since 1992 or 3, what our vet wrote was almost identical to what she wrote for Nissa's brother's card, 6.5 years ago...and his card took a MONTH to get to us! We now have to wonder if all her cards to grieving parents are the same.
They probably are. At the clinic I worked at, most of our cards were the same to everyone (with the exception of a select few that were very dear to our hearts), but what is important is the thought. Some clinics don't do diddly squat but collect their money and send you on their way, so if they make any effort to aknowledge your grief, I would try to accept their good will....as much as we would like to think otherwise, we must remember that our furbaby is only one of many that they must find time to care for, so try not to expect
too much from them

.
(It sounds to me that your local vet was just a bad seed in general, though. Having read your description of her practice, I'm surprised (knowing you

) that you were able to continue using her! I would have had to take my 'thick as a phonebook' record and find another vet who loved to read in their spare time

(sorry..a little humor there!))[quote] Perhaps this is also why we weren't treated as well as we should have been....we weren't spending the bulk of our money there anymore. Though I didn't want to believe she could be that heartless, that's what my husband definitely thought. But after 14 years and probably around $15,000 spent with her, to still get such minimally-caring treatment when our girl was dying and afterwards........it's just not right.
I hate to admit it, but it does sound as though this vet must have been a little money hungry to even stretch herself that thin to begin with...so it is shamefully possible

.
I'm sorry you have had such terrible experiences with your vets, but as with any profession, there will definitely be bad seeds, I just hate that you have had to deal with them. [quote]And sadly, when we were newly-moved here years ago, we actually saw some even WORSE vets in the area. Before we'd even chosen a new one ( because we couldn't even find a decent one ), I'd had to take Sabin quickly to someone, as his ear was bleeding internally and he needed emergency care. Unknowingly, I took him to someone in town, not the city, who I later found out is a raging alcoholic who has actually killed, through sheer negligence, some local pets
I had the same exact experience! When my fmily first moved here (this was 20 years ago), and was looking for a good vet, we found one that was very impressive! He had all that fancy state of the art equipment, yadda, yadda...we later found out he too was a raging alcoholic with some mental issues to top it all off, and had also had animals die under 'questionable' cir%%stances! We were horrified! Thankfully we had only been there for regular exams, but it is so scary to not know what goes on behind the scenes no matter how good they 'appear' to be! Thank God I have the luxury to know (through other friends in the field) what goes on at nearly every clinic around here, so I know which ones to steer people clear of!
In the end, what really matters is that

Nissa

got top notch care and she lived 19 long years as a testiment to that

. After all, she had the best darn nurse around

!
hang in there...
Kim
Furkidlets' Mom
Sep 19 2006, 05:26 PM
Thank you so much, Kim, for all of that

.....okay, NOW I'm crying!!!! And yes, good point about our distance vet....a call IS better and he was trying so hard to help me calm down. I guess I just wanted something
written to keep as a memento for Nissa's memory box....and especially from this doc, as he's so eloquent and compassionate. And mind you, I've not done so well myself, as I haven't even finished all my thank-you cards to everyone yet! ( but I'm trying to cut myself some slack, since I'm the one grieving ) My H is so disgusted by the local clinic that he said I shouldn't even bother sending them a thank-you note, but I'm pretty sure I still will, regardless, as it's not like they didn't do ANYTHING for us over the years.
That makes me think of something, though. If you ever had the time, maybe you could make a list of exactly what guardians should be looking for when trying to find a vet....like an insider's view of what might not be so obvious to many of us? I can't think of a better way to get rid of all these poor vets than a gradual lack of business. Your story of the one really bad one there is equally as horrid as the one here........shudder.....
And yes, I enjoyed your wry comment on finding a vet who likes to read alot.

That was one of our concerns.....that no one WOULD take the time, and she'd suffer for it, as the busiest practises here seem to be the ones with the better docs.
And thanks for saying I was "the best darn nurse" around for our darling girl......okay, crying again......it helps to alleviate some of that persistent and self-imposed guilt that continues to jab away at me despite any reason and logic. As you know, nothing was ever perfect
enough for my kids, but I'll just GO with that, at least for now. I guess I done pretty good, keeping Nissa alive and happy, then at least content and still so hugely-loved, for close to 20 years....despite all the frustrations on the medical side. But then, she was SOOOO worth it all....

and that's what kept me fighting for her.
nickels
Sep 20 2006, 12:44 PM
It's been 3 weeks since I had my best friend "put down" here in Tulsa. I've been to 4 clinics here over the years. We've been using the one, where I took Nickels for his final visit, for about 10 years. We have never seen the same vet at any of these clinics. Turnover rate is high.
They asked me while I was in shock if I wanted his body after they killed him. I couldn't think! If they had any compassion could they have not stored his body for 24 hours until I could review my options. Now I have to live with them memory of "throwing him away" like a pile of garbage. Cards? Flowers? Phone Calls? No way! Not here in the Bible belt! They're in it for the money and don't let the door hit you on the way out. I am grieving so bad and not even a phone call or card. YET when it's time to vaccinate ($$$ could possibly tack on some money from lab work that didn't need to be done-yes this happened last year), there is always a postcard from all of these clinics we've been to.
I will not be able to have another pet. That is a luxery I can no longer afford. I am unable to feed, vaccinate, and supply the load of cash that these "care givers" need so bad. Even after 10 years they would not even consider a payment plan for other options. If your animal is suffering due to inability to pay in full, they have no problem suggesting that you have it killed or take it home and let it slowly die. And at the end of the day they jump into their expensive sports car and drive to their high dollar domicile and have no problem going to sleep.
Sorry to rant but I miss Nickels so much. He was the best friend I ever had and everyone is treating his memory as if he never existed. I am still not able to look at any of his photos knowing how I disposed of him like yesterdays trash.
Michelle
Precious' mom
Sep 20 2006, 02:49 PM
Michelle,
I am so sorry that happened to you. I live in the Bible Belt as well but my vet was far more compassionate. Why didn't they work with you on arrangements? They should have if they were a competent vet. Almost all are respectful of the pet AND the owner. I think you were treated very badly; you should demand a refund and ask why you were treated that way!
Nickels was a beauty and lucky to have you as a mum. He knows you were there and you honour his memory. I'm just sorry that the vet didn't have more sense to help you in every way possible.
Please take care and know he's in a better place now, waiting for you someday!
Lisa
Furkidlets' Mom
Sep 20 2006, 05:46 PM
Michelle,
My heart breaks for you! Unfortunately, I know the type of which you speak....lots of those kind here, too.
But those of us here at LS won't treat Nickels' memory as if he never existed!! We're here to try and make up for all those uncaring, insensitive types in the world. I have found, even with human death, most folks aren't there for you when you need them and with animals it can be even more so. I had a friend who had a home euthanasia and has never gotten over the fact that the vet put her cat in a plastic garbage bag and tossed her into the back of her truck after she got out the door. ( this was in Montreal ) She was stunned, and couldn't move out of her shock in time to run downstairs and retrieve her cat. She's angry to this day.
I, too, would suggest taking some of that anger and speaking ( as calmly as possible ) to the vet or manager of the clinic. At least expressing your problem might help dispel some of that, as it's not YOU who should end up taking on any inappropriate guilt for the results of such callous practise. It might interest you to know, though, that even with human death, many ins***utions like to be able to send the body off w/i 24 hrs. and they often hassle the bereft in order to do so. ( this happened with my Mum's body )
Such is much of the world, sadly, and thus the need for grief boards, for all types of loss. I know, first-hand, how lack of compassion and empathy can worsen one's grief to the nth degree, so you have all my sympathies on that count alone. And for Nickels' parting.....you have even more! He's a beautiful cat, btw.
And you needn't feel badly about 'ranting', as that's what grief's all about much of the time.
mcbvmd
Sep 21 2006, 01:28 PM
Hello everyone.
I guess the world works in mysterious ways and things happen for a reason.. the reason I say that is because I think is amazing that I came across this site that I never have seen before and just in the time that I need it.
First of all I just want to tell everyone how very sorry I am about the losses they are suffering.. you all sound like such very loving people and I hate so much that you are hurting right now. I am especially very sorry for those of you who have mentioned bad veterinary experiences.. especially you Michelle.. Nickels is such a beautiful kitty.. he looks just like my Robert.
SO the reason I am very happy to find this site is because I am a vet and I am just feeling so bad lately about some losses of my patients... and how sad their families are. Just last night I had a very rough night ( albeit not nearly as rough as my patients or their families).. I am exhausted but I jsut can't sleep becuase I am so sad. There was an especially lovely German Shepherd named Chancellor who came in with a GDV ( twisted stomach) who I was optimistic about doing well... goes to show you that you never know because when I performed his surgery I found that his stomach had ruptured and there was only 25% of the stomach that was viable and stomach contents were all through their abdomen. SO I had to tell his people he needed to be euthanized( he could not be saved).. very awful.. also had a 4 month old puppy that presented in a coma because she ate her owners Naproxen and Baclofen, a muscle relaxant ( the owner has MS) and I am not sure if she will make it. I see this kind of stuff a lot... and I KNOW it is my job.. and i really do love it. but sometimes it just really really gets to me. But I will let you know.. I ALWAYS.. no matter how tired I am or how busy.. I always make sure to give peopel the time they deserve and make sure they know about their options for grief support and that they get a card. I wish I could call everyone and be even MORE personal... but sometimes I have 14-15 hour days and I euthanize 5 plus a day ( just sometimes thank god) and it is really hard to keep up. Hahah.. I find myself getting behind a lot just trying to write up reports and call people about tests and all the stuff we have to do.... well.. I am not complaining.. I guess I am just letting loose.
But my MAIN reason for wr***ing this is that I want to let YOU guys know I really appreciate what you have said about vets.. because sometimes I feel like I just dont do enough.. or I wish there were 3 of me.. or I wish I could just make the pain go away for everyone, and i wish everyone KNEW how much I really cared.. I sit here now crying writing this because I am just so sad for CHancellor and his family... but thanks to you ( and my Dog NAtalie sitting here and supporting me

I guess I can persevere.

Thanks everyone.. and again.. to those of you who have had a bad experience.. believe me.. there REALLY are vets who care.
Please take care everyone.
Precious' mom
Sep 21 2006, 02:45 PM
Thank you for sharing that! I think vets do a tremendous job with the pets and their owners, in times of routine visits and otherwise. They try to keep things calm in a crisis and do a brill job. Mine certainly did. Even the vet techs at the emergency clinic were great the three times I took Precious (the third being the final time).
I can only imagine what you feel when you find one that's critical and the owner didn't even suspect it. Or if the animal overdosed on the owner's meds as you described (it happens more than you know, especially in the case of elderly owners).
Even though you do what you can, know that it is appreciated and keep doing what you do, so many depend on it!
Lisa
JOANNE
Sep 21 2006, 03:49 PM
Dear mcbvmd
Thanks so much for writing. I had the same vet for about 25 yrs and he gave the most superior care and I am sure that most vets do. I am a RN and worked in an office setting for 36yrs and I do know it is hard to get all the things
done we would like to do because you are swamped with the have to do, but I am sure that the most of you are very compassionate or you would not be in that profession. When 2mos ago I had to pts my Raggs I only thought about my pain and afterwards wondered why my vet was so quiet and a few days after it came to my like a light bulb that he was hurting also
because this is the dog he pulled through many serious illness and surgery and now he had to say good by. He sent me the sweetest card that said simply in memory of Raggs. I got him a gift certificate to Barnes and Noble and hope the book he gets will remind him of Raggs but like my patients I know you vets do not forget them you remember the traits each one had. I just want to thank you for sharing your thought and remember as my vet said first do no harm and when the time comes you help to ease them into the next world
Thanks again
Joanne(Raggs mom)
Krissyo
Sep 22 2006, 11:59 AM
mcbvmd, I also am glad that you posted here so that we could get an idea of what you go thru on the other side of the exam table. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to someone who brings animal in for what everyone thinks is something that is treatable, and to have to tell them that it is not. As I have said before, I truly feel bad for my vet as I do not take bad news in stride. I have probably spent more time crying at the vets office than any other place except for home. I also have been guilty of snapping at the staff in the vets office a couple of times, when my nerves have been on edge, BUT I have always called and apologized after an incident and no one have ever held it against me or my babies. They understood that I was hurting and fearful and only seeing things from my side. Once the "Voice of Reason" kicks in I am OK.
In January my vet was out of town and I had to see his associate. Dugan was losing weight and throwing up. Well, to make a long story short I was irritated with her as she did Xrays, barium and a few other tests which all came out negative until a month later when the thyroid test (which had been misplaced at the lab) came back elevated. In my mind, I thought why did we not wait to do the other tests after we got the results of the tyroid test? Now, looking back, I am so glad we did that because there was no cancer. Now, at least I know there was not anything that we missed in January and that makes it easier to live with.
Dugan's Mom
Krissyo
mcbvmd
Sep 23 2006, 12:01 AM
Thanks everyone... from my side I am feeling a little better..

And I hope that as days go by the weight on all of your hearts is lessening a bit.

ON a brighter note too.. the little puppy.. Jezzabel.. how appropriate..who came in in a coma because of eating her owner's meds.. is now being naughty, jumping around and chewing her catheter.. she goes home tomorrow.. YAYYYYYYYY!!!
nickels
Sep 23 2006, 10:58 AM
I don't know what I would do without this message board! I'm pushing 50 and my faith in people is not what it used to be. My Husband has been here since 1993 and Nickels and I moved out here from Nevada in 1999. He had the most wonderful vet in Henderson, NV. She was such a great vet. One day I took Nickels in for his check up and Dr. Trish was so sick. As she was looking him over he pulled his head up and looked deeply into her eyes, then licked her hand and looked back up at her. She started crying and said, "He knows I don't feel good and that bothers him!"
Each time we went to her, Nickels would sit patiently on the table. After a few visits he would crawl onto the scale on the counter and sit very still until she had his weight. He was always full of energy but when it came time for his vet visits he was calm and knew the routine. I've had several animals over the course of my life (I was raised on a farm). I've dealt with loss but, this is the hardest grieving I've ever done over a pet. He was so special to me that I used to say, "Hey you in the cat suit!" when I wanted his attention and he always responded.
A month before I took him to the vet we had an estranged brother and his wife at our house from New York for a week. I was so excited that my Husband had his Brother back after 25 years. They turned out to be the most horrible people I've ever had the displeasure of meeting but I was gracious the entire time no matter what. They are millionairs and they made us pay for almost everything. We took them to our regular diner and my sister-in-law picked a fight over bread with the waitress to get out of leaving a tip so we left one for them. She also threw several "tantrums" over everything. At the same time one of our best clients emailed me to let me know her cancer had come back and there was nothing they could do. She has at most 2 more months to live. If this wasn't enough towards the end of our visit with the in-laws, my tounge was developing canker soars from a cracked tooth. I said later it was God punishing me for lying so much to the relatives. "I love you guys so much!" was the type of phrases that came out of my mouth several times a day to keep the peace while they were here. Anyway, I had a bad infection that spread to the entire left side of my head, ear c&%^, and throat. It took the doctor and dentist 3 weeks to get it under control including 2 root c&%^s. By the time that was over is when I noticed Nickels wasn't feeling good. The last night he was with me he sat up on the bed and put his big old foot on my chest and looked deeply into my eyes as if trying to tell me something. I think he was saying that he didn't have long. Breaks my heart thinking about it. I also feel so guilty about wasting money on ungrateful relatives and doctors and dentists that will not take payments! By the time all my medical problems were solved we were so cash poor that we could barely pay for the euthanasia. I work with my Husband and a week after Nickels passed Steve Irwin was killed. We really related to them as a husband/wife team and it hit both of us incredibally hard over his death and leaving his family behind. All in all it has been the 6 weeks of horror that I never want to go through again. I asked my Husband if they gave out olympic medals over stress because we should surely win a gold for all of this!
I've suffered medical setbacks over this. I don't have any real friends here and my doctors office is the same as the vet when it comes to money. Even though my blood pressure went through the roof and my heart rate has been in a dangerous category they will not see me until I have cash in hand (been a patient for over 5 years there). I know the world is changing but it just all seems to be "Just Business". It does my heart good to read a post like mcbvmd's to restore a little faith in man kind. I am so happy that the puppy made it! Bless your heart for taking care of God's special ones. Thanks to all of you for your words of encouragment. They mean more to me than you can ever know.
Michelle
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